False Idol — Why the Christian Right Worships Donald Trump

[whag]

That's a matter of opinion.

You really don’t realize you sound like Lebowski, do you?

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[demi-conservative]

I could only listen to about 10 minutes of his "speech" yesterday. His voice grates on me. Must be the New York accent.

Try these
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOUFsCS7xYE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KIpnPapquY

[demi-conservative]

Obama was definitely more "Presidential" that Trump - He presented himself well, was very likeable and spoke well. Trump is rude, brash and couldn't make a decent speech if his life depended on it.

Trump can and has made good speeches. People see what they want to see, and Obama is perfect for them. Just a shell, an actor, all show and little substance.

[demi-conservative]

I think everyone is forgetting the most important fact: Obama is cool
<snip>
It’s dangerous regardless of which side ‘wins’ at the end. At the end of the day Trump will never be as cool as Obama.

As I was saying, for so many people it's all about shallow surface image.

[seanD]

I think everyone is forgetting the most important fact: Obama is cool

He seems like a cool dude. I don’t know much about him at all besides that since he hardly ever made the news down here.

BUT even if people don’t actually worship Trump, I find it extremely troubling that many people unquestionably take his word as the truth.

By that I mean Trump calls the Muellar report a hoax and ‘no collusion, no obstruction ‘ and that’s what people believe despite what the report actually says. This then becomes the foundation to believing Ukraine was actually behind the election meddling in 2016.

Trump calls it a witch hunt and again it’s believed despite the recent report finding legitimate cause for investigations. Horowitz and Wray are suddenly never trumpers.

Trump says ‘no evidence’ in this Ukraine claim and the same people chant ‘no evidence!’ despite the overwhelming amount of evidence.

Whether it’s ‘hearsay’ ‘perfect call’ ‘no quid pro quo’ ‘Biden is dirty’ ‘Ukraine not Russia’ every single line, it seems, that Trump utters is taken as fact.

On top of that any negative stories about Trump is dismissed as fake news, anyone negative about anything Trump is a never trumper, any agency not 100% in agreement with Trump is corrupt or deep state. It only leaves Trump and pro Trump news as their only source for information.

It’s dangerous regardless of which side ‘wins’ at the end. At the end of the day Trump will never be as cool as Obama.

Many might easily translate "cool" as "have a political facade."

[NorrinRadd]

Obama was definitely more "Presidential" that Trump - He presented himself well, was very likeable and spoke well. Trump is rude, brash and couldn't make a decent speech if his life depended on it. Just watching his rally in Pennsylvania last night on TV, his "speech" was nothing more than cheerleading the crowd with sound bites and waiting for them to cheer him on. He would make a good coach, but a lousy public speaker.

I'm not at all a "rally" kind of person, so I can't even watch those things.

[JimL]

Nope. It says that if you believe and are baptized then you will be saved, which is true. What it doesn't say is that baptism is necessary for salvation.

Actually, yes, that's exactly what it says "believe and baptised" equals saved.

Otherwise you would expect the warning in the second half of the verse to read "The one who does not believe, and the one who does believe but is not baptized will be condemned."

Nope, if the one doesn't believe, then there is no reason to add baptism to that verse.

[Mountain Man]

Actually, yes, that's exactly what it says "believe and baptised" equals saved.

Now you have to get from there to showing that baptism is a requirement, that one who believes but is not baptized is not really saved, and that Jesus lied to the thief on the cross.

[Cow Poke]

Nope. It says that if you believe and are baptized then you will be saved, which is true. What it doesn't say is that baptism is necessary for salvation. Otherwise you would expect the warning in the second half of the verse to read "The one who does not believe, and the one who does believe but is not baptized will be condemned."

EGGzackly - the negative inference fallacy.

[NorrinRadd]

I think everyone is forgetting the most important fact: Obama is cool

He seems like a cool dude. I don’t know much about him at all besides that since he hardly ever made the news down here.

BUT even if people don’t actually worship Trump, I find it extremely troubling that many people unquestionably take his word as the truth.

By that I mean Trump calls the Muellar report a hoax and ‘no collusion, no obstruction' and that’s what people believe despite what the report actually says.

Well... It certainly did not find "yes collusion, yes obstruction."

This then becomes the foundation to believing Ukraine was actually behind the election meddling in 2016.

Both Russia and Ukraine meddled.

Trump calls it a witch hunt and again it’s believed despite the recent report finding legitimate cause for investigations. Horowitz and Wray are suddenly never trumpers.

Barr and Durham (inter alia) disputed that legitimacy. Suddenly they are Trump sycophants.

Trump says ‘no evidence’ in this Ukraine claim and the same people chant ‘no evidence!’ despite the overwhelming amount of evidence.

That's because the evidence is not "overwhelming." It is sparse, nebulous, unverified, virtually if not literally all second-hand, ambiguous, and not criminal in nature. That is not just the verdict of Trump acolytes, it is the view of non-partisan people like Turley, who found the Ukraine call troubling, and actually sort of argued *for* impeachment, if the House would start over and take it seriously.

Whether it’s ‘hearsay’ ‘perfect call’ ‘no quid pro quo’ ‘Biden is dirty’ ‘Ukraine not Russia’ every single line, it seems, that Trump utters is taken as fact.

I take several of those as fact. I put "perfect call" in the "Very Stable Genius" category, and just kind of shake my head.

On top of that any negative stories about Trump is dismissed as fake news, anyone negative about anything Trump is a never trumper, any agency not 100% in agreement with Trump is corrupt or deep state. It only leaves Trump and pro Trump news as their only source for information.

It’s dangerous regardless of which side ‘wins’ at the end. At the end of the day Trump will never be as cool as Obama.

Some of us despise "cool."

[NorrinRadd]

Why don't we start a separate thread for "baptism," and let the various views duke it out there?

[JimL]

Now you have to get from there to showing that baptism is a requirement, that one who believes but is not baptized is not really saved, and that Jesus lied to the thief on the cross.

No, we just need recognise that the bible is contradictory. It's why some believe they must be baptised and some don't.