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I'm not sure I follow this part. Could you unpack this a little bit more? I think I see what you're getting at, but I'm not sure.
That God is complex and that complex things need causes at least as complex as they are is an argument that Dawkins has used for years. I agree that it's a bad argument.
I think Plantinga pointed out that something can be complex as far as its properties but simple in terms of its substance or essential nature. I think the argument can be made that this is the case with God since God is immaterial and His substance is not made of parts. An analogy would be my consciousness which is essentially immaterial and thus simple but has many complex properties.
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Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View PostWhat is difficult about the first part?
For the second, I would disagree with Plantinga some. He doesn't hold to divine simplicity the way that I do.
Even if Plantinga holds to a different idea of divine simplicity than you do, doesn't the same point about properties and substance hold? Anyway, I think it was Mortimer Adler who made that point and not Plantinga, although who it was is largely irrelevant, IMO,
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I'm going on Dawkins's argument on who made God? If he says God is complex and therefore needs a designer, then complex things need designers and thus, DNA and everything else needs a designer. If they don't, then one could hypothetically say God is the exception.
I am not clear on Plantinga's view on the matter. I just know he isn't as strong on it as I would prefer he be.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostAnd what exactly is spirit?
If there is a God, then God would be the basis of what things are ultimately made of, so asking what God is made of would make no sense. God would have aseity, would exist a se, independently, self-sufficiently as the ground and reason for things that are made of other things.
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Originally posted by Jim B. View PostWhat is anything made of? What is matter ultimately 'made of'? Fields of force? And what are they 'made of'? Causal dispositions? What is consciousness 'made of'? Are you a physicalist?
If there is a God, then God would be the basis of what things are ultimately made of, so asking what God is made of would make no sense. God would have aseity, would exist a se, independently, self-sufficiently as the ground and reason for things that are made of other things.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostEx nihilo nihil fitIf it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!
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Originally posted by Christianbookworm View PostSo, how do you have an entire universe spring from nothing in your worldview?
A quantum vacuum is still something.
A multiverse is not scientifically testable.
And what would be the cause for a multiverse?
An eternal multiverse is more comlpicated than God.
It can't explian morality
or the fine tuning of the universe.
And what do you care anyways? I don't go troll Hindu forums and bug them about the logical isues of reincarnation.Last edited by JimL; 12-17-2019, 11:32 PM.
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