Real Clear Average - Polling for Support of Impeachment

[Cow Poke]

It's always weird how people forget all about Justin Amash!

I don't think you can point to polls on the one hand and then say that a near-50% tie is merely demonstrating how divided the nation is. Approval/support polling for politicians and policies doesn't reflect that sort of bifurcation in general so why apply it here?

--Sam

I'm not the one who started "pointing to polls", Sam - I was countering the clowns* who use "50%" as proof that the impeachment should happen.



*just poking my friend who uses that phrase to refer to those who don't hate Trump as much as he does

[lilpixieofterror]

A tangent argument but the question isn't "Do center and left-leaning media outlets numerically outnumber right-leaning media outlets?" The question is where the "audience" is getting their news (everywhere from Facebook to the Epoch Times) and what the composition of those outlets are.

Long story short, the railing on the "MSM" that happens these days is based on a completely antiquated notion of news consumption and imagining that the whole MSM is helping Democrats gin up impeachment has the disadvantages of being both false and anachronistic.

--Sam

Facebook and Twitter, also lean left.

[rogue06]

I don't think Fox News is lacking for viewership or partisan lean.

--Sam

True, but they don't hold a candle to the viewership of any one of the Big 3.

Similarly, the Washington Times has but a fraction of the readership of the Washington Post not to mention all the other liberal newspapers going right up the coast.

[Sam]

I'm not the one who started "pointing to polls", Sam - I was countering the clowns* who use "50%" as proof that the impeachment should happen.



*just poking my friend who uses that phrase to refer to those who don't hate Trump as much as he does

The point remains: despite high levels of polarization, we just don't see a 50/50 (or 47/46) breakdown on most politicians' approval ratings or support/oppose polling for most policies so it doesn't work to look at impeachment polling and say that it merely demonstrates the divided nature of the country.

We'll see how many House Democrats vote against impeachment; it will likely be more than one but the idea that the only bipartisanship over impeachment is Democratic crossovers is 1) false and 2) just as logically an expression of Republican intransigence in the face of compelling evidence as it is an indication of weakness or conflict in the Democratic caucus.

--Sam

[Sam]

Facebook and Twitter, also lean left.

On what basis are you rating the news feeds of US Facebook or Twitter users "leaning left"?

[Sam]

True, but they don't hold a candle to the viewership of any one of the Big 3.

Similarly, the Washington Times has but a fraction of the readership of the Washington Post not to mention all the other liberal newspapers going right up the coast.

Well, we'd have to get into viewership of national broadcast news vs. viewership of local syndicated broadcast news, the influence of Sinclair Broadcasting in local news ... etc.

Any way it's sliced, there's simply no big bad MSM that monopolizes the airwaves and directs public opinion anymore. Information-getting is much too fragmented (or democratic, if one wants to put a shine on it) for that.

--Sam

[lilpixieofterror]

On what basis are you rating the news feeds of US Facebook or Twitter users "leaning left"?

The companies lean left and have had former employees saying Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube does censor right leaning content creators and uses their software to keep their comments, post, and video’s off the popular or trending feeds. Do you deny this stuff as happening?

[Cow Poke]

The point remains: despite high levels of polarization, we just don't see a 50/50 (or 47/46) breakdown on most politicians' approval ratings or support/oppose polling for most policies so it doesn't work to look at impeachment polling and say that it merely demonstrates the divided nature of the country.

We'll see how many House Democrats vote against impeachment; it will likely be more than one but the idea that the only bipartisanship over impeachment is Democratic crossovers is 1) false and 2) just as logically an expression of Republican intransigence in the face of compelling evidence as it is an indication of weakness or conflict in the Democratic caucus.

--Sam

It's a political game, Sam --- when the Democrats were opposing Clinton's impeachment (where he actually committed the crime of perjury) they were all about "there has to be bipartisan support for impeachment and solid public support".

Now they're pushing ahead on a CLEARLY partisan basis with ONLY (at the most) 50% public support.

[Sam]

It's a political game, Sam --- when the Democrats were opposing Clinton's impeachment (where he actually committed the crime of perjury) they were all about "there has to be bipartisan support for impeachment and solid public support".

Now they're pushing ahead on a CLEARLY partisan basis with ONLY (at the most) 50% public support.

Well, as you say, times have changed -- though 50% support for impeaching a sitting president is uncommonly high, not middling.

What might be useful is going back to look at what Republican congressmen who were part of Clinton's impeachment are saying now regarding Trump and whether their statements about the factual merits are consistent.

It is not a political game and focusing on fact rather than public opinion helps us remember that.

--Sam

[Sam]

The companies lean left and have had former employees saying Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube does censor right leaning content creators and uses their software to keep their comments, post, and video’s off the popular or trending feeds. Do you deny this stuff as happening?

Yes, since studies done have found no such anti-conservative bias dominating Facebook. A whole lot of right-wing types whining about shadow-banning and censorship that didn't hold up to factual scrutiny.

Regardless, Facebook has numerous senior executives and lobbyists who were/are deeply entwined with the Republican party, either as campaign officials, strategists, even a senator. The idea that the companies "lean left" is not only too nebulous to be of any use, it's factually-challenged at best. Big tech companies, it's safer to say, are self-interested parties willing to work both sides when profitable.

--Sam

[Cow Poke]

Well, as you say, times have changed -- though 50% support for impeaching a sitting president is uncommonly high, not middling.

And?

What might be useful is going back to look at what Republican congressmen who were part of Clinton's impeachment are saying now regarding Trump and whether their statements about the factual merits are consistent.

It is not a political game and focusing on fact rather than public opinion helps us remember that.

--Sam

It's all political, Sam, and it's just nutty to pretend it's not. Both sides will do whatever they think will help their chances to stay in (or gain) power.

[rogue06]

Well, we'd have to get into viewership of national broadcast news vs. viewership of local syndicated broadcast news, the influence of Sinclair Broadcasting in local news ... etc.

Any way it's sliced, there's simply no big bad MSM that monopolizes the airwaves and directs public opinion anymore. Information-getting is much too fragmented (or democratic, if one wants to put a shine on it) for that.

--Sam

We'd also have to come to terms with the fact that it isn't just the news we are dealing with. It is everything from the coffee klatsch morning shows through their regular programing on into the Late Nate comics.

[Sam]

We'd also have to come to terms with the fact that it isn't just the news we are dealing with. It is everything from the coffee klatsch morning shows through their regular programing on into the Late Nate comics.

Then, by the sheer complexity of the system, it becomes absolutely impossible to argue that left-wing or liberal media is skewing public opinion. If it's everything from Fox & Friends to Steve Colbert, we've established that culture in media is simply too complex to drive an entire society in a universal partisan direction.

--Sam

[Sam]

And?



It's all political, Sam, and it's just nutty to pretend it's not. Both sides will do whatever they think will help their chances to stay in (or gain) power.

If that's the belief, probably better to just ignore the whole scene, right?

[Cow Poke]

If that's the belief, probably better to just ignore the whole scene, right?

It's not "the belief", Sam --- you honestly are naive enough to think the Democrats are doing this because they are honorable and principled? Really?