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Thread: Is 5G dangerous?

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    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Is 5G dangerous?

    I've seen dire warnings about how dangerous 5G is, and it should not be deployed, but I can't seem to find anything to substantiate that.

    Is 5G dangerous? We asked an expert

    Harnessing millimeter wave (mmWave) spectrum for faster data speeds is one of the biggest breakthroughs of 5G, the next generation cellular networking technology following 4G LTE. But there are concerns this very high-frequency spectrum could pose adverse health effects for the public.

    These kinds of concerns aren’t new — consumer anxiety concerning whether radiofrequency radiation can increase the risk of cancerous tumors has existed for some time. To get some concrete answers on the subject, we reached out to the U.S. Food and Drug Association (FDA), a government agency that is not only responsible for protecting public health through the control and supervision of food and drugs, but also electromagnetic radiation emitting devices. We further supplemented those responses with information sourced from the American Cancer Society and the International Agency for Research on Cancer.

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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    5G phones are only dangerous if you throw one at someone's head.

  3. Amen Hypatia_Alexandria amen'd this post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    I've seen dire warnings about how dangerous 5G is, and it should not be deployed, but I can't seem to find anything to substantiate that.

    Is 5G dangerous? We asked an expert

    Harnessing millimeter wave (mmWave) spectrum for faster data speeds is one of the biggest breakthroughs of 5G, the next generation cellular networking technology following 4G LTE. But there are concerns this very high-frequency spectrum could pose adverse health effects for the public.

    These kinds of concerns aren’t new — consumer anxiety concerning whether radiofrequency radiation can increase the risk of cancerous tumors has existed for some time. To get some concrete answers on the subject, we reached out to the U.S. Food and Drug Association (FDA), a government agency that is not only responsible for protecting public health through the control and supervision of food and drugs, but also electromagnetic radiation emitting devices. We further supplemented those responses with information sourced from the American Cancer Society and the International Agency for Research on Cancer.

    ...
    Whilst there's still room for the answer to be, "Yes," with further studies down the road, I think a lot of the concern comes from the fact your average Joe doesn't know much about radiation. I know someone who was part of a nuclear power plant tour, and another guy on-tour set off a Geiger counter because his wife had him on some fad diet revolving around bananas. Apparently, the type of potassium in bananas is radioactive, and if you eat a heavy enough concentration of them... well... you can set off a Geiger counter.
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    tWebber TheLurch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    I've seen dire warnings about how dangerous 5G is, and it should not be deployed, but I can't seem to find anything to substantiate that.
    There's no plausible biological mechanism for this wavelength to damage molecules or tissues aside from via heating, and the levels of radiation aren't high enough to cause significant heating of human tissue. In the absence of any evidence that it is harmful through a mechanism we haven't identified, i'm not at all concerned.
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  6. Amen Sparko, Chaotic Void, Cow Poke, Cerebrum123 amen'd this post.
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    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaotic Void View Post
    Whilst there's still room for the answer to be, "Yes," with further studies down the road, I think a lot of the concern comes from the fact your average Joe doesn't know much about radiation. I know someone who was part of a nuclear power plant tour, and another guy on-tour set off a Geiger counter because his wife had him on some fad diet revolving around bananas. Apparently, the type of potassium in bananas is radioactive, and if you eat a heavy enough concentration of them... well... you can set off a Geiger counter.
    Bananas are a great source of potassium, but they don't have a greater ratio of K-40 than anything else.
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    tWebber TheLurch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaotic Void View Post
    Apparently, the type of potassium in bananas is radioactive, and if you eat a heavy enough concentration of them... well... you can set off a Geiger counter.
    Potassium has a radioactive isotope that's relatively rare (0.012% of the total potassium), but the element itself is so common that its radioactivity contributes significantly to the background. It's also got quite a long half life (over a billion years), so there's still a lot of it around. Bananas concentrate potassium in general, and thus by extension get a fair bit of the radioactive stuff.
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    Tweeb Overlord Chaotic Void's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    Bananas are a great source of potassium, but they don't have a greater ratio of K-40 than anything else.
    That's the story I was told. Apparently, this dude's wife had him eating a LOT of bananas.
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    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaotic Void View Post
    That's the story I was told. Apparently, this dude's wife had him eating a LOT of bananas.
    Yeah, they have enough to affect radiation readings if you have more than a couple before the reading.
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    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLurch View Post
    There's no plausible biological mechanism for this wavelength to damage molecules or tissues aside from via heating, and the levels of radiation aren't high enough to cause significant heating of human tissue. In the absence of any evidence that it is harmful through a mechanism we haven't identified, i'm not at all concerned.
    Thanks, Lurch, for the serious response. That's kinda what I'm finding.
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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    I've seen dire warnings about how dangerous 5G is, and it should not be deployed, but I can't seem to find anything to substantiate that.

    Is 5G dangerous? We asked an expert

    Harnessing millimeter wave (mmWave) spectrum for faster data speeds is one of the biggest breakthroughs of 5G, the next generation cellular networking technology following 4G LTE. But there are concerns this very high-frequency spectrum could pose adverse health effects for the public.

    These kinds of concerns aren’t new — consumer anxiety concerning whether radiofrequency radiation can increase the risk of cancerous tumors has existed for some time. To get some concrete answers on the subject, we reached out to the U.S. Food and Drug Association (FDA), a government agency that is not only responsible for protecting public health through the control and supervision of food and drugs, but also electromagnetic radiation emitting devices. We further supplemented those responses with information sourced from the American Cancer Society and the International Agency for Research on Cancer.

    ...
    The 5G technologies have not been tested for their effects on human physiology. So in the best case, one can say "we don't know."

    There are papers raising concerns, e.g. https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...13935118300161

    Things that have to be considered include the transmission frequency, signal types, signal levels, and environmental effects.

    I've seen where signal bursts are worse than constant signals (such as sinusoidals). Our current cellphones generate a lot of bursts when trying to connect to a distant tower.

    There are concerns in this (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29459303):
    In the interaction of microwave radiation and human beings, the skin is traditionally considered as just an absorbing sponge stratum filled with water. In previous works, we showed that this view is flawed when we demonstrated that the coiled portion of the sweat duct in upper skin layer is regarded as a helical antenna in the sub-THz band. Experimentally we showed that the reflectance of the human skin in the sub-THz region depends on the intensity of perspiration, i.e. sweat duct's conductivity, and correlates with levels of human stress (physical, mental and emotional). Later on, we detected circular dichroism in the reflectance from the skin, a signature of the axial mode of a helical antenna. The full ramifications of what these findings represent in the human condition are still unclear. We also revealed correlation of electrocardiography (ECG) parameters to the sub-THz reflection coefficient of human skin. In a recent work, we developed a unique simulation tool of human skin, taking into account the skin multi-layer structure together with the helical segment of the sweat duct embedded in it. The presence of the sweat duct led to a high specific absorption rate (SAR) of the skin in extremely high frequency band. In this paper, we summarize the physical evidence for this phenomenon and consider its implication for the future exploitation of the electromagnetic spectrum by wireless communication. Starting from July 2016 the US Federal Communications Commission (FCC) has adopted new rules for wireless broadband operations above 24 GHz (5 G). This trend of exploitation is predicted to expand to higher frequencies in the sub-THz region. One must consider the implications of human immersion in the electromagnetic noise, caused by devices working at the very same frequencies as those, to which the sweat duct (as a helical antenna) is most attuned. We are raising a warning flag against the unrestricted use of sub-THz technologies for communication, before the possible consequences for public health are explored.
    Here's from another abstract: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29402696
    Preliminary observations showed that MMW increase skin temperature, alter gene expression, promote cellular proliferation and synthesis of proteins linked with oxidative stress, inflammatory and metabolic processes, could generate ocular damages, affect neuro-muscular dynamics. Further studies are needed to better and independently explore the health effects of RF-EMF in general and of MMW in particular. However, available findings seem sufficient to demonstrate the existence of biomedical effects, to invoke the precautionary principle, to define exposed subjects as potentially vulnerable and to revise existing limits.

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