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Thread: Some House Democrats push Pelosi to withhold impeachment articles

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    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Some House Democrats push Pelosi to withhold impeachment articles

    Some House Democrats push Pelosi to withhold impeachment articles

    Now that Trump is formally impeached, Pelosi can't seem to figure out what to do. Maybe they actually believed their own lies, and thought they could con the American people into rallying the Senate to convict and remove?

    WASHINGTON — A group of House Democrats is pushing Speaker Nancy Pelosi and other leaders to withhold the articles of impeachment against President Trump that emerged from the House on Wednesday, potentially delaying a Senate trial for months.

    The notion of impeaching Trump but holding the articles in the House has gained traction among some of the political left as a way to potentially force Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell, Republican of Kentucky, to conduct a trial on more favorable terms for Democrats. And if no agreement is reached, some have argued, the trial could be delayed indefinitely, denying Trump an expected acquittal.

    The gambit has gained some traction inside the left wing of the House Democratic Caucus this week. Representative Earl Blumenauer, Democrat of Oregon, said Wednesday, as his colleagues debated the impeachment articles on the House floor, that he has spoken to three dozen Democratic lawmakers who expressed some level of enthusiasm for the idea of ‘‘rounding out the record and spending the time to do this right.’’

    ‘‘At a minimum, there ought to be an agreement about access to witnesses, rules of the game, timing,’’ Blumenauer said of a Senate trial.

    Another Democrat, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal deliberations, said there is ‘‘serious concern about whether there will be a fair trial on the Senate side’’ and acknowledged active talks about withholding the articles.



    This thread is NOT to re-litigate impeachment
    - that train has left the station. This is about the next phase - what the Democrats will do with the AoI.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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    tWebber Ronson's Avatar
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    Pretty much anything House Democrats do at this stage is going to hurt them. This is just another bomb. Sanders and Warren are going to squawk if this tactic interferes with their primary campaigning.

    But mainly, IMO, the electorate is getting angry about this bogus impeachment. The sooner Dems can get rid of it, the better for them. This won't get there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronson View Post
    Pretty much anything House Democrats do at this stage is going to hurt them. This is just another bomb. Sanders and Warren are going to squawk if this tactic interferes with their primary campaigning.

    But mainly, IMO, the electorate is getting angry about this bogus impeachment. The sooner Dems can get rid of it, the better for them. This won't get there.
    I've never seen such a mass self-inflicted political wound since Tricky Dick declared "I'm not a CROOK!"
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    It is well outside the boundaries of the House's authority to try to force a rules change on the Senate (talk about an abuse of power!). And besides, there's nothing in the Constitution that says that the Senate can't take immediate action once the House has voted to impeach regardless of whether or not the articles have been formally delivered.
    Last edited by Mountain Man; 12-19-2019 at 08:56 AM.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    I think that by trying to withhold them, they are basically invalidating their own case. It is basically the same as if a prosecutor claimed they had evidence against someone but then declined to press charges. It would mean nothing except that the prosecutor knew his case was not winnable. The presumption of innocence would prevail.

    Also I think the Senate could vote without the House presenting the articles. They are already officially entered into the record, right? So they have access to them. They can rule and just say that the House declined to present their case so they are tossing the whole thing out.

  8. Amen Cow Poke, Teallaura amen'd this post.
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    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    It is well outside the boundaries of the House's authority to try to force a rules change on the Senate (talk about an abuse of power!). And besides, there's nothing in the Constitution that says that the Senate can't take immediate action once the House has voted to impeach regardless of whether or not the articles have been formally delivered.
    It is sheer desperation on the part of the Democrats, some of whom are waking up "the morning after" realizing they'd gone to bed with disaster.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  10. Amen Teallaura amen'd this post.
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    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    I think that by trying to withhold them, they are basically invalidating their own case. It is basically the same as if a prosecutor claimed they had evidence against someone but then declined to press charges. It would mean nothing except that the prosecutor knew his case was not winnable. The presumption of innocence would prevail.
    Yeah, whatever happened to "this is URGENT, we gotta STOP him!!!"

    Also I think the Senate could vote without the House presenting the articles. They are already officially entered into the record, right? So they have access to them. They can rule and just say that the House declined to present their case so they are tossing the whole thing out.
    Well, the Democrats sure made a sham of the process, but they expect the Senate to bow to their mandates and accept THEIR rules?

    This is a scream.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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    So, it sounds like Nervous Nancy is going to hold up the selection of House Managers until the Senate sets the rules and format for their proceedings.

    Sheeeeesh.....

    Nancy: "Impeachment is so divisive to the country that unless there’s something so compelling and overwhelming and bipartisan, I don’t think we should go down that path, because it divides the country. And he’s just not worth it.
    Nancy: "we can't wait, because the crime is ongoing" "urgent that we act"
    Nancy: "OK, we're gonna sit on this until the Senate decides to kiss our butts and do things our way"

    (yeah, only the first quote is her actual words, the rest is pretty much a summary of her 'updated' positions)
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    I've never seen such a mass self-inflicted political wound since Tricky Dick declared "I'm not a CROOK!"
    Never thought it was possible to aim a missile at your foot and yell, “FIRE!!!!” But here we are...
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

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  16. #10
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    This is absolutely hilarious...

    WASHINGTON — The future of the House’s impeachment case against President Trump hung in doubt on Thursday, after the third-ranking House Democrat raised the possibility that the chamber could permanently withhold the articles from the Senate if it did not get assurances of a fair trial.

    The morning after the House impeached Mr. Trump nearly along party lines, Representative James E. Clyburn, Democrat of South Carolina, said he was willing to wait “as long as it takes” to transmit the two impeachment articles approved Wednesday night. The House charged Mr. Trump with abuse of power and obstruction of Congress related to his campaign to pressure Ukraine to smear Democratic rivals.

    “Until we can get some assurances from the majority leader that he is going to allow for a fair and impartial trial to take place, we would be crazy to walk in there knowing he has set up a kangaroo court,” Mr. Clyburn said Thursday morning on CNN, referring to Senator Mitch McConnell, Republican of Kentucky and the majority leader.


    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  17. Amen Teallaura amen'd this post.

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