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This area of the forum is primarily for Christian theists to discuss orthodox views of Eschatology. Other theist participation is welcome within that framework, but only within orthodoxy. Posts from nontheists that do not promote atheism or seek to undermine the faith of others will be permitted at the Moderator's discretion - such posters should contact the area moderators before posting.


Without turning this forum into a 'hill of foreskins' (Joshua 5:3), I believe we can still have fun with this 'sensitive' topic.

However, don't be misled, dispensationalism has only partly to do with circumcision issues. So, let's not forget about Innocence, Conscience, Promises, Kingdoms and so on.

End time -isms within orthodox Christianity also discussed here. Clearly unorthodox doctrines, such as those advocating "pantelism/full preterism/Neo-Hymenaeanism" or the denial of any essential of the historic Christian faith are not permitted in this section but can be discussed in Comparative Religions 101 without restriction. Any such threads, as well as any that within the moderator's discretions fall outside mainstream evangelical belief, will be moved to the appropriate area.

Millennialism- post-, pre- a-

Futurism, Historicism, Idealism, and Preterism, or just your garden variety Zionism.

From the tribulation to the anichrist. Whether your tastes run from Gary DeMar to Tim LaHaye or anywhere in between, your input is welcome here.

OK folks, let's roll!

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I will send the prophet Elijah...

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  • I will send the prophet Elijah...

    Scripture Verse: Malachi 4:5

    “See, I will send the prophet Elijah to you before that great and dreadful day of the Lord comes.

    © Copyright Original Source



    Who do preterists say Elijah was? Or is this one of many verses they throw into the trash to believe what they are comfortable believing rather than what is true?

  • #2
    Jesus has already answered this question for you.
    Source: Mat. 17:10-13 NKJV

    10 And His disciples asked Him, saying, “Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?”

    11 Jesus answered and said to them, “Indeed, Elijah is coming first and will restore all things. 12 But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him but did to him whatever they wished. Likewise the Son of Man is also about to suffer at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples understood that He spoke to them of John the Baptist.

    © Copyright Original Source



    Or are "[these some] of many verses [you] throw into the trash to believe what [you] are comfortable believing rather than what is true"?
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
    sigpic
    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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    • #3
      Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
      Jesus has already answered this question for you.
      Source: Mat. 17:10-13 NKJV

      10 And His disciples asked Him, saying, “Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?”

      11 Jesus answered and said to them, “Indeed, Elijah is coming first and will restore all things. 12 But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him but did to him whatever they wished. Likewise the Son of Man is also about to suffer at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples understood that He spoke to them of John the Baptist.

      © Copyright Original Source



      Or are "[these some] of many verses [you] throw into the trash to believe what [you] are comfortable believing rather than what is true"?
      Thank you for f̶a̶l̶l̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶i̶n̶t̶o̶ ̶m̶y̶ ̶t̶r̶a̶p̶ answering my question, little piggy. Notice how the Lord Jesus switches tenses in His answer. That's because He is speaking of two different Elijahs with two different missions. One Elijah to precede His great day (1st coming) and another Elijah to precede His terrible day (2nd coming). You'll please note that John the Baptist didn't restore anything, let alone "all things". Which means another Elijah must be coming to restore "all things" and fulfill Scripture.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
        Jesus has already answered this question for you.
        Source: Mat. 17:10-13 NKJV

        10 And His disciples asked Him, saying, “Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?”

        11 Jesus answered and said to them, “Indeed, Elijah is coming first and will restore all things. 12 But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him but did to him whatever they wished. Likewise the Son of Man is also about to suffer at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples understood that He spoke to them of John the Baptist.

        © Copyright Original Source



        Or are "[these some] of many verses [you] throw into the trash to believe what [you] are comfortable believing rather than what is true"?
        That was before the Mandela Effect.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Darfius View Post
          Thank you for f̶a̶l̶l̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶i̶n̶t̶o̶ ̶m̶y̶ ̶t̶r̶a̶p̶ answering my question, little piggy. Notice how the Lord Jesus switches tenses in His answer. That's because He is speaking of two different Elijahs with two different missions. One Elijah to precede His great day (1st coming) and another Elijah to precede His terrible day (2nd coming). You'll please note that John the Baptist didn't restore anything, let alone "all things". Which means another Elijah must be coming to restore "all things" and fulfill Scripture.
          That's a fascinating eisegesis of Jesus' words, Darfius. It's inventive, I'll give you that. It fails to take into account little things like the Hebrew predilection for switching tenses midstream in order to flagrantly write your own interpretation into the text.
          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
          sigpic
          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

          Comment


          • #6
            unsubscribing
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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            • #7
              Seriously? That's how morally bankrupt the preterists and their sympathizers here are? Not even an attempt to explain the "all things" that John the Baptist restored? Just an ambiguous whimper about Hebrew grammar?

              The first Elijah (technically John the Baptist was the second Elijah, but the first of the ones prophesied to come in Elijah's spirit) prefigured Christ by dying, since Christ died at His first coming. The second Elijah--who is one of the two witnesses--will prefigure Christ by breathing fire from his mouth upon the wicked (Revelation 11:5) as Christ will do at His second coming (2 Thessalonians 2:8).

              The second Elijah will also "restore" the twelve tribes of Israel (Ezekiel 37) and "restore" God's temple on earth (preparing the way of the Lord: Ezekiel 40 and Revelation 11). See how that restore word keeps coming up?

              The Lord Jesus never spoke a single idle word, silly preterists. Now stop offering up false and blasphemous "worship" to Him and spread truth.

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              • #8
                John the Baptist being the prophesied forerunner is not controversial at all. Are you just trolling? I really hope you are just trolling. Otherwise, you need some help for your condition.
                If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                  John the Baptist being the prophesied forerunner is not controversial at all. Are you just trolling? I really hope you are just trolling. Otherwise, you need some help for your condition.
                  I'm not disputing that he was the prophesied forerunner, since the Lord Jesus says so explicitly. I am explaining to you and other people who don't particularly care what the Bible says that he was not the only prophesied forerunner. You know Jesus is coming again, right?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Darfius View Post
                    I'm not disputing that he was the prophesied forerunner, since the Lord Jesus says so explicitly. I am explaining to you and other people who don't particularly care what the Bible says that he was not the only prophesied forerunner. You know Jesus is coming again, right?
                    Like a thief in the night. And no one knows the day or hour when He we be back. But we shouldn't just look at the clouds. There is a world that needs to hear the good news.
                    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                      Like a thief in the night. And no one knows the day or hour when He we be back. But we shouldn't just look at the clouds. There is a world that needs to hear the good news.
                      Is your soul as empty as it sounds when you force out these platitudes? You honor God with your lips, but your heart is far from Him, as is evidenced by your actions.

                      Christ comes as a thief to the wicked, whose mascot and father is Satan (the owner of the house in the thief parable). It is Satan's kingdom which will be divided against itself and his metaphorical "house" (kingdom) which will be plundered at a time and in a manner he cannot foresee (otherwise he would take steps to prevent it).

                      Scripture Verse: Matthew 12

                      25 Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? 27 And if I drive out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. 28 But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
                      29 “Or again, how can anyone enter a strong man’s house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can plunder his house.

                      © Copyright Original Source



                      Satan's kingdom is explicitly called a household here and Christ calls Satan the "strong man" owner of the house, whom He, the thief, ties up and plunders.

                      Scripture Verse: Matthew 24

                      42 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

                      © Copyright Original Source



                      The Bible provides a general outline of how God will bring about the downfall of Satan's kingdom (the smashing of the statue in Daniel), but the specifics are left out for obvious reasons. God's not going to tell His enemy how He plans to defeat him, else the enemy will prepare, as the parables state. But that is why the devil is "filled with fury" when he has been cast down from heaven during the tribulation and is on the verge of facing judgment. He thought he had planned for every eventuality until God's plan uppercuts him:

                      Scripture Verse: Revelation 12

                      12
                      Therefore rejoice, you heavens
                      and you who dwell in them!
                      But woe to the earth and the sea,
                      because the devil has gone down to you!
                      He is filled with fury,
                      because he knows that his time is short.”

                      © Copyright Original Source



                      The righteous are told to keep watch so that the day does not come upon them as a thief:

                      Scripture Verse: 1 Thessalonians 5

                      4 But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. 5 You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness. 6 So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be awake and sober.

                      © Copyright Original Source



                      And the other verses which show that the righteous are meant to anticipate and be prepared for endtime events (what shall be the signs of thy coming?) and (look up, for your redemption draws near) have been covered and ignored here ad nauseam.
                      Last edited by Darfius; 12-19-2019, 08:35 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                        John the Baptist being the prophesied forerunner is not controversial at all. Are you just trolling? I really hope you are just trolling. Otherwise, you need some help for your condition.
                        Welcome to a Darfius thread where truth and facts always give way to wild speculation and crazy conjecturing.

                        And here you thought Bizarro World was nuts.

                        I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          Welcome to a Darfius thread where truth and facts always give way to wild speculation and crazy conjecturing.

                          And here you thought Bizarro World was nuts.
                          I did some preliminary research on conspiracy theorists and found they aren't very nice people and believe in conspiracy theories to feel unique.
                          If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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                          • #14
                            Elijah himself did appear at the transfiguration.

                            Matt 17:1 After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2 There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. 3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              Elijah himself did appear at the transfiguration.

                              Matt 17:1 After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2 There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. 3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.
                              So you think Malachi was prophesying about three people seeing Elijah appear one night on top of a mountain?

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