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  • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    We (at least I am) are talking about White nationalists and neo-Nazis being accepted and finding in the person something they admire - to the point they can adopt the Nazi salute. Changing that into 'liberals are attacking them as being 'racist, sexist, homophobic, etc') will not fly as 'equivalent'.
    And again Jim, you really don’t remember White Nationalist and neo-Nazi’s throwing support behind other republicans? And they haven’t ‘been accepted’. Stop spreading propaganda and stretching the truth.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

    Comment


    • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
      And again Jim, you really don’t remember White Nationalist and neo-Nazi’s throwing support behind other republicans? And they haven’t ‘been accepted’. Stop spreading propaganda and stretching the truth.
      No, you stop pretending Trump's situation in this is any kind of 'normal'
      My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

      If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

      This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

      Comment


      • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
        No, you stop pretending Trump's situation in this is any kind of 'normal'
        I don’t need to ‘pretend’ anything. Your TDS infested brain makes you believe anything negative of Trump. Many people were present in Charleston that day, Neo-Nazi’s was just one. The media lied to you about events that took place and you lap it up because it fits your belief system.
        "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
        GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

        Comment


        • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
          I don’t need to ‘pretend’ anything. Your TDS infested brain makes you believe anything negative of Trump. Many people were present in Charleston that day, Neo-Nazi’s was just one. The media lied to you about events that took place and you lap it up because it fits your belief system.
          You are good at making up stories, I'll give you that...
          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

          Comment


          • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
            You are good at making up stories, I'll give you that...
            You can read it for yourself Jim. You’re spreading a narrative that Nazi’s and White Supremest are somehow everywhere and Trump loves them, when it’s a total lie. DonÂ’t worry, your anti Christian buddies will lap it up because it’s what you’re so desperate to believe, even when MM and Rogue put the idiocy to rest, you accept it because it tells you everything you so wish to believe was true. Fact is, liberals have been busy linking any republican they can, with any racist they can find and even when I demonstrate it’s true and pull it from a left leaning source, you ignore it. Trump isn’t a Nazi, your liberal pals are lying to you again.
            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

            Comment


            • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
              I don’t need to ‘pretend’ anything. Your TDS infested brain makes you believe anything negative of Trump. Many people were present in Charleston that day, Neo-Nazi’s was just one. The media lied to you about events that took place and you lap it up because it fits your belief system.
              When Trump was making his "very fine people", he was referring to the protests on Friday night to protect the statue of Robert E. Lee. There were many people present but those people were part of a march with the crowd chanting "Jews will not replace us!"

              Saturday's protests were explicitly formed by white supremacist groups and attended by various flavors of white supremacist groups, militias, and neo-Nazis.

              Anyone found protesting alongside those groups but not herself a white supremacist or neo-Nazi would have been part of an extreme minority and, given the circumstances, deserves to be counted among the horde.

              And those people are who Trump tried to split off as "very fine people". A distinction without a difference.

              --Sam
              "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Sam View Post
                When Trump was making his "very fine people", he was referring to the protests on Friday night to protect the statue of Robert E. Lee. There were many people present but those people were part of a march with the crowd chanting "Jews will not replace us!"

                Saturday's protests were explicitly formed by white supremacist groups and attended by various flavors of white supremacist groups, militias, and neo-Nazis.

                Anyone found protesting alongside those groups but not herself a white supremacist or neo-Nazi would have been part of an extreme minority and, given the circumstances, deserves to be counted among the horde.

                And those people are who Trump tried to split off as "very fine people". A distinction without a difference.

                --Sam


                We know this because people there saw it happen and have confirmed Trump’s characterization publicly. New York Times reporter Sheryl Gay Stolberg, for one, attested: “The hard left seemed as hate-filled as alt-right,” she tweeted. “I saw club-wielding ‘antifa’ beating white nationalists being led out of the park.” If there were any doubt as to whether the Left were committing violence that day, Stolberg later clarified: “[I] should have said violent, not hate-filled.”

                I did not notice any wall-to-wall coverage of Stolberg’s unambiguous eyewitness testimony. Did you?

                Another eyewitness report comes from Isabella Ciambotti, a creative writing major from the University of Virginia. Speaking to The New York Times, Ciambotti testified that at one point “a counterprotestor ripped a newspaper stand off the sidewalk and threw it at alt-right protesters.” Photographic evidence confirms Ciambotti’s account.

                Raw footage of the moment the counterprotestor threw the box is inconclusive but strongly suggests the counterprotester was unprovoked at the time. Further raw footage shows counterprotesters hurling objects at white supremacists and neo-Nazis while the latter simply stand there a good distance apart from the crowd.

                ....

                Ciambotti further asserts:

                “There were absolutely groups of peaceful protesters in Charlottesville this past weekend, many making a mature show of resistance. But what I saw on Market Street didn’t feel like resistance. It felt like every single person letting out his or her own well of fear and frustration on the crowd.”

                https://thefederalist.com/2017/08/17...ia-lost-minds/



                I had forgotten the details because there’s so much that has been an outrage over since, but this article covers it well. I’m sure you’ll figure a way to hand wave it all away, but it’s pretty hard with all that documentation there of lots of violence, from both sides.
                Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 01-06-2020, 11:01 PM.
                "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                Comment


                • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post

                  I had forgotten the details because there’s so much that has been an outrage over since, but this article covers it well. I’m sure you’ll figure a way to hand wave it all away, but it’s pretty hard with all that documentation there of lots of violence, from both sides.
                  I'd recommend you watch this video which is linked in that article and tell me whether you'd put your stamp of "very fine people" on it. Also there is a clear edit immediately before newsbox incident so it's impossible to really know what is the sequence of events leading up to it. There really isn't any way to say that the protestor was or was not provoked outside of the man drawing a gun and threatening to shoot them!

                  And I'm no friend of antifa. I don't support political violence and, as a practical consideration, does more harm than "good" in multiple ways.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
                    I'd recommend you watch this video which is linked in that article and tell me whether you'd put your stamp of "very fine people" on it. Also there is a clear edit immediately before newsbox incident so it's impossible to really know what is the sequence of events leading up to it. There really isn't any way to say that the protestor was or was not provoked outside of the man drawing a gun and threatening to shoot them!

                    And I'm no friend of antifa. I don't support political violence and, as a practical consideration, does more harm than "good" in multiple ways.
                    Keep reading the article. I had forgotten the details since there’s been so much to be outraged about since.
                    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                      Keep reading the article. I had forgotten the details since there’s been so much to be outraged about since.
                      No, you watch the video from your own article first.

                      Edit: Ok, I couldn't help myself and read the rest of this article. Do you stand behind this statement it contains "Trump makes a lot of mistakes. Some are minor, some major."?
                      Last edited by DivineOb; 01-06-2020, 11:51 PM.

                      Comment


                      • The only Trump Derangement Syndrome is people still playing cover for this guy

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
                          I'd recommend you watch this video which is linked in that article and tell me whether you'd put your stamp of "very fine people" on it. Also there is a clear edit immediately before newsbox incident so it's impossible to really know what is the sequence of events leading up to it. There really isn't any way to say that the protestor was or was not provoked outside of the man drawing a gun and threatening to shoot them!

                          And I'm no friend of antifa. I don't support political violence and, as a practical consideration, does more harm than "good" in multiple ways.
                          Antifa is a lot more than just the folks in Bloc, friend.

                          I'm antifascist, as any good american should be, and I go to the local rallies as my own person to counter protest. I've personally been protected by people in bloc when someone snuck into the liberals group and was going to pepper spray us and I am very happy a teenager in a black hoodie/bandana combo tackled the dude. I never even knew the guy was there, but he kept me safe and I'm grateful for it.

                          By far the largest bit of work done by antifascists is researching/tracking/exposing people who are active members of hate groups. Bloc is only the most visible part of antifascist work and the most easily demonized

                          Antifa is good, actually, and while I find the use of violence regrettable in my experience it is fundamentally a defensive use of force. I've seen firsthand what happens when traditionally liberal activists get isolated by the far right and its not pretty. I'd rather we not have political violence, but the initiative is with the far right groups. The Antifa people are, overwhelmingly, locals. Proud Boys from all over the US invaded Portland in August. They come into cities that are thought of as liberal (Charlottesville, Berkeley, Portland, New York) explicitly to waste city resources and so they can get their 4th degree rank in the gang.

                          Also worth pointing out that most antifascists I've spoken to in Portland don't like either political party, but the far right groups that come to brawl are explicit fans of the President. Only politician I think I've ever heard an antifascist say they like is Bernie. The rest of the Dems can eat it as far as they're concerned.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Jaecp View Post
                            Antifa is a lot more than just the folks in Bloc, friend.

                            SNIP
                            Thanks for the info. I read a short article on them and have a better picture.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
                              Thanks for the info. I read a short article on them and have a better picture.
                              Nice! Thank you for keeping an open mind :)

                              Most cities with an active far right presence has groups of people that do research,

                              https://rosecityantifa.org/#blog

                              This one for Portland has been instrumental in keeping track of the receipts, so to speak.

                              Comment


                              • Gotta learn to post things that support, rather than undermine, your point.

                                The argument wasn't that most white supremacists were violent or that none of the counter-protesters were violent.

                                The argument was that Trump called white nationalists/supremacists/neo-Nazis "very fine people", inventing a fictitious group of pro-Confederate statue protesters Friday night and/or non-fascist-supporting Unite the Right protesters Saturday.

                                --Sam

                                Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post


                                We know this because people there saw it happen and have confirmed Trump’s characterization publicly. New York Times reporter Sheryl Gay Stolberg, for one, attested: “The hard left seemed as hate-filled as alt-right,” she tweeted. “I saw club-wielding ‘antifa’ beating white nationalists being led out of the park.” If there were any doubt as to whether the Left were committing violence that day, Stolberg later clarified: “[I] should have said violent, not hate-filled.”

                                I did not notice any wall-to-wall coverage of Stolberg’s unambiguous eyewitness testimony. Did you?

                                Another eyewitness report comes from Isabella Ciambotti, a creative writing major from the University of Virginia. Speaking to The New York Times, Ciambotti testified that at one point “a counterprotestor ripped a newspaper stand off the sidewalk and threw it at alt-right protesters.” Photographic evidence confirms Ciambotti’s account.

                                Raw footage of the moment the counterprotestor threw the box is inconclusive but strongly suggests the counterprotester was unprovoked at the time. Further raw footage shows counterprotesters hurling objects at white supremacists and neo-Nazis while the latter simply stand there a good distance apart from the crowd.

                                ....

                                Ciambotti further asserts:

                                “There were absolutely groups of peaceful protesters in Charlottesville this past weekend, many making a mature show of resistance. But what I saw on Market Street didn’t feel like resistance. It felt like every single person letting out his or her own well of fear and frustration on the crowd.”

                                https://thefederalist.com/2017/08/17...ia-lost-minds/



                                I had forgotten the details because there’s so much that has been an outrage over since, but this article covers it well. I’m sure you’ll figure a way to hand wave it all away, but it’s pretty hard with all that documentation there of lots of violence, from both sides.
                                "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                                Comment

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