Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Christianity Today Op Ed

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    So, as long as I provide an "or", I can accuse you of being a serial rapist OR a Tweb Nanny, and as long as one of those can be defended.....

    Thanks, Charles, for the entertainment.
    I think the only "entertainment" is that after you obviously manipulated and got caught doing so you are now acting in a very inappropriate way.
    "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
      I thought amen's were trivial, and that people that took offense at amen's were a few nuts short of a full set. That certainly is what you and others told me when I took offense at amens.
      Trivial, yes, but entertaining.

      And it was also mentioned quite forcefully that amening a post does not necessarily amen the entirety of the post.
      Which is why I ASKED, Jim....

      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      Ox, is this the part you're amening?!

      Do I need to make that bigger or bolder?

      You need to hold to your own standards CP.
      If I weren't ASKING, your little rant might actually have a point, Jim, but.... sheeesh, I ASKED.

      You and others most certainly do.
      Honestly, Jim, I think this is more evidence of TDS.

      You and others consistently attempt to trivialize legitimate concerns about Trump's policies and actions by accusing those raising those concerns as irrational and afflicted with "TDS".
      Because of you who exhibit symptoms of TDS like to jump to wild conclusions like I illustrated in my list that you mocked.

      You post here more than I do CP - by something close to a factor of 10.
      Not only more in quantity, but in quality and clarity, too!

      (But, you'll note that on the "blogging", I was referring specifically to Charles, who rarely has a point of his own, but constantly nannies the conservatives, and amens the... um... other people)
      Last edited by Cow Poke; 01-20-2020, 01:47 PM.
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Charles View Post
        I think the only "entertainment" is that after you obviously manipulated and got caught doing so you are now acting in a very inappropriate way.
        Sure, Charles.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          Trivial, yes, but entertaining.



          Which is why I ASKED, Jim....


          Do I need to make that bigger or bolder?



          If I weren't ASKING, your little rant might actually have a point, Jim, but.... sheeesh, I ASKED.



          Honestly, Jim, I think this is more evidence of TDS.



          Because of you who exhibit symptoms of TDS like to jump to wild conclusions like I illustrated in my list that you mocked.



          Not only more in quantity, but in quality and clarity, too!

          (But, you'll note that on the "blogging", I was referring specifically to Charles, who rarely has a point of his own, but constantly nannies the conservatives, and amens the... um... other people)
          Perhaps one day you will actually try to engage honestly and legitimately with one of my replies to you.

          But today is not that day.
          Last edited by oxmixmudd; 01-20-2020, 02:32 PM.
          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            So, as long as I provide an "or", I can accuse you of being a serial rapist OR a Tweb Nanny, and as long as one of those can be defended.....

            Thanks, Charles, for the entertainment.

            My point, which I made clearly and you chose to not respond to, was that the assertions that one is not a Christian and one cannot be a legitimate commentator on Scripture are closely linked -- even, I'd argue, that asserting the latter almost necessitates the former. The clauses were paired deliberately and specifically to identify their close tie while still acknowledging them as separate assertions. If you think "serial rapist" and "TWeb Nanny" are similarly closely tied, I suppose that's an argument you can try to make.

            But I would not suggest that strategy.

            --Sam
            "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
              The problem for you is that your understanding of scripture is at odds with your social views. If your interpretation of Exodus is correct (or at least how you understand it to have been interpreted) then it is morally permissible for a woman to have an abortion if she catches it early enough, and there is nothing Biblical you can say against it even though this apparently rankles you. Is that dogma I see creeping into your post? "Hoisted by your own petard", as the saying goes.

              I do not think it is proper to use the passage in Exodus as a guideline for abortion because its purpose is to establish case law for an unintentional action and is not meant to define the "value" of the child at various stages of its prenatal development.
              Actually it is a mistranslated as Miscarriage in the NASB as Greg Koukl points out the 2 hebrew words used in that instance have been used to denote a living birth.here in fact Yasa means to go or come forth.
              From the Article.
              The relevant phrase in the passage, "...she has a miscarriage...," reads w?yase û ye ladêhâ in the Hebrew. It's a combination of a Hebrew noun, yeled, and a verb, yasa, and literally means "the child comes forth." The NASB makes note of this literal rendering in the margin.

              The Hebrew noun translated "child" in this passage is yeled[4] (yeladim in the plural), and means "child, son, boy, or youth."[5] It comes from the primary root word yalad,[6] meaning "to bear, bring forth, or beget." In the NASB yalad is translated "childbirth" 10 times, some form of "gave birth" over 50 times, and either "bore," "born," or "borne" 180 times.

              The verb yasa[7] is a primary, primitive root that means "to go or come out." It is used over a thousand times in the Hebrew Scriptures and has been translated 165 different ways in the NASB--escape, exported, go forth, proceed, take out, to name a few. This gives us a rich source for exegetical comparison. It's translated with some form of "coming out" (e.g., "comes out," "came out," etc.) 103 times, and some form of "going" 445 times.

              What's most interesting is to see how frequently yasa refers to the emergence of a living thing:

              Genesis 8:17 [to Noah] "Bring out with you every living thing of all flesh that is with you, birds and animals and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth...."

              Genesis 15:4 "This man will not be your heir; but one who shall come forth from your own body...."

              Genesis 25:25-26 "Now the first came forth red, all over like a hairy garment; and they named him Esau. And afterward his brother came forth with his hand holding on to Esau's heel, so his name was called Jacob.".........

              Yasa is used 1,061 times in the Hebrew Bible. It is never translated "miscarriage" in any other case. Why should the Exodus passage be any different?


              Plus there were two other words Moses could have used to denote Miscarriage nepel and sakal.
              also from article.

              The noun nepel[11] means "miscarriage" or "abortion," and is used three times:......
              Job 3:16 "Or like a miscarriage which is discarded, I would not be, as infants that never saw light."

              Eccl. 6:3-4 "If a man fathers a hundred children and lives many years, however many they be, but his soul is not satisfied with good things, and he does not even have a proper burial, then I say, 'Better the miscarriage than he, for it comes in futility and goes into obscurity.'"

              Psalms 58:8 "Let them be as a snail which melts away as it goes along, like the miscarriages of a woman which never see the sun."

              The verb sakal[12] means "to be bereaved" and is used four times, including one time when it's actually translated "abort:"
              Genesis 31:38 "These twenty years I have been with you; your ewes and your female goats have not miscarried, nor have I eaten the rams of your flocks."

              Exodus 23:26 "There shall be no one miscarrying or barren in your land; I will fulfill the number of your days."

              Hosea 9:14 "Give them, O Lord-- what wilt Thou give? Give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts."

              Job 21:10 "His ox mates without fail; his cow calves and does not abort."


              If Moses had 2 words that would denote a dead child coming out of the womb why did he choose one that in all instances it is used is translated as living hmm?
              Last edited by RumTumTugger; 01-20-2020, 03:11 PM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Sam View Post
                My point, which I made clearly and you chose to not respond to, was that the assertions that one is not a Christian
                And I reject that notion outright. The fact that you go on to add additional charges is beside the point. It is THAT point to which I object.

                and one cannot be a legitimate commentator on Scripture are closely linked
                Perhaps in your mind, but not in mine.

                -- even, I'd argue, that asserting the latter almost necessitates the former.
                No. As I already stated, I believe somebody can be a Christian and STILL be wrong on issues.

                The clauses were paired deliberately and specifically to identify their close tie while still acknowledging them as separate assertions.
                Your ALLEGED close tie.

                If you think "serial rapist" and "TWeb Nanny" are similarly closely tied, I suppose that's an argument you can try to make.
                I don't - they are separate issues. Just like accusing somebody of NOT being a Christian (which I have never done) is "closely related" to believing that somebody living in open rebellion is not the best source for biblical interpretation.

                But I would not suggest that strategy.

                --Sam
                Nor would I try to employ it, cause it's dumb. Just like trying to imply that I claim Buttigieg is NOT a Christian based on his screwed up view of the Bible.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                  Perhaps one day you will actually try to engage honestly and legitimately with one of my replies to you.

                  But today is not that day.
                  I did, Jim --- You just refuse to see it. I think it's part of your condition. You're posting really wacky stuff, and I DO answer it, but then you come up with this crap, or goofy smilies.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    No. As I already stated, I believe somebody can be a Christian and STILL be wrong on issues.
                    If that is your opinion, you have done a pretty poor job at expressing it in statements such as:

                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    No. It's because he's only using the scripture to justify his political aspirations and to justify his own lifestyle - and the lost world praises his "refreshing" approach to the Bible. And you left out my reference to his pro=abortion stand, squishy though it may be.
                    So, are you trying to make the claim that someone who is only using scripture to justify his political aspirations and justify his own lifestyle can be a Christian? If he was a Christian, he would have to use scripture for more than that, I would guess? In other words, it seems there is not much consistency in what you are claiming.
                    "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      I did, Jim --- You just refuse to see it. I think it's part of your condition. You're posting really wacky stuff, and I DO answer it, but then you come up with this crap, or goofy smilies.
                      Keep trying, you'll figure it out eventually. The first step would be to stop trying to divine motives. The second step would be to stop assuming the motives are necessarily bad. We could start there. I'm sure if you will try, we will see nearly instant improvement in the quality of your replies.
                      My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                      If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                      This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                        Keep trying, you'll figure it out eventually. The first step would be to stop trying to divine motives.
                        When you master that, Jim, demonstrate it.

                        The second step would be to stop assuming the motives are necessarily bad.
                        Yeah, like you do repeatedly with Trump?

                        Again, when you master that, let me know, k?

                        We could start there. I'm sure if you will try, we will see nearly instant improvement in the quality of your replies.
                        Hypocrite much?
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          When you master that, Jim, demonstrate it.



                          Yeah, like you do repeatedly with Trump?

                          Again, when you master that, let me know, k?



                          Hypocrite much?
                          You are so predictable.

                          You know, if you put as much thought into the subject matter of your replies as you do figuring out pithy little jabs, you might find yourself engaged in productive conversation a larger percentage of the time.
                          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                            You are so predictable.

                            You know, if you put as much thought into the subject matter of your replies as you do figuring out pithy little jabs, you might find yourself engaged in productive conversation a larger percentage of the time.
                            Lead the way, Ox. Come on, you can do it!
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              Lead the way, Ox. Come on, you can do it!
                              just taking a breather to see if you can catch up.
                              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by RumTumTugger View Post
                                Actually it is a mistranslated as Miscarriage in the NASB as Greg Koukl points out the 2 hebrew words used in that instance have been used to denote a living birth.here in fact Yasa means to go or come forth.
                                From the Article.
                                The relevant phrase in the passage, "...she has a miscarriage...," reads w?yase û ye ladêhâ in the Hebrew. It's a combination of a Hebrew noun, yeled, and a verb, yasa, and literally means "the child comes forth." The NASB makes note of this literal rendering in the margin.

                                The Hebrew noun translated "child" in this passage is yeled[4] (yeladim in the plural), and means "child, son, boy, or youth."[5] It comes from the primary root word yalad,[6] meaning "to bear, bring forth, or beget." In the NASB yalad is translated "childbirth" 10 times, some form of "gave birth" over 50 times, and either "bore," "born," or "borne" 180 times.

                                The verb yasa[7] is a primary, primitive root that means "to go or come out." It is used over a thousand times in the Hebrew Scriptures and has been translated 165 different ways in the NASB--escape, exported, go forth, proceed, take out, to name a few. This gives us a rich source for exegetical comparison. It's translated with some form of "coming out" (e.g., "comes out," "came out," etc.) 103 times, and some form of "going" 445 times.

                                What's most interesting is to see how frequently yasa refers to the emergence of a living thing:

                                Genesis 8:17 [to Noah] "Bring out with you every living thing of all flesh that is with you, birds and animals and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth...."

                                Genesis 15:4 "This man will not be your heir; but one who shall come forth from your own body...."

                                Genesis 25:25-26 "Now the first came forth red, all over like a hairy garment; and they named him Esau. And afterward his brother came forth with his hand holding on to Esau's heel, so his name was called Jacob.".........

                                Yasa is used 1,061 times in the Hebrew Bible. It is never translated "miscarriage" in any other case. Why should the Exodus passage be any different?


                                Plus there were two other words Moses could have used to denote Miscarriage nepel and sakal.
                                also from article.

                                The noun nepel[11] means "miscarriage" or "abortion," and is used three times:......
                                Job 3:16 "Or like a miscarriage which is discarded, I would not be, as infants that never saw light."

                                Eccl. 6:3-4 "If a man fathers a hundred children and lives many years, however many they be, but his soul is not satisfied with good things, and he does not even have a proper burial, then I say, 'Better the miscarriage than he, for it comes in futility and goes into obscurity.'"

                                Psalms 58:8 "Let them be as a snail which melts away as it goes along, like the miscarriages of a woman which never see the sun."

                                The verb sakal[12] means "to be bereaved" and is used four times, including one time when it's actually translated "abort:"
                                Genesis 31:38 "These twenty years I have been with you; your ewes and your female goats have not miscarried, nor have I eaten the rams of your flocks."

                                Exodus 23:26 "There shall be no one miscarrying or barren in your land; I will fulfill the number of your days."

                                Hosea 9:14 "Give them, O Lord-- what wilt Thou give? Give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts."

                                Job 21:10 "His ox mates without fail; his cow calves and does not abort."


                                If Moses had 2 words that would denote a dead child coming out of the womb why did he choose one that in all instances it is used is translated as living hmm?
                                Yep, that's another point I was going to bring up. This does seem to contradict the traditional Jewish position, but I have no problem with accepting that this particular tradition could be wrong, and as we know from the New Testament, Jesus and the Apostles spent a lot of time correcting Jewish theology.
                                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by little_monkey, Yesterday, 04:19 PM
                                16 responses
                                101 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post One Bad Pig  
                                Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
                                53 responses
                                301 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Mountain Man  
                                Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
                                25 responses
                                109 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
                                33 responses
                                195 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Roy
                                by Roy
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
                                84 responses
                                357 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post JimL
                                by JimL
                                 
                                Working...
                                X