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Thread: Christianity Today Op Ed

  1. #1261
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    You challenged my response to Sam talking about "It is not weak to love those that are hurting." Since what triggered it was about Buttigeg then it seems fair to ask just how he is hurting (I'll drop the weak part since I misread that)?

    Or was your response merely an attempt to deflect and distract?
    I think what Jim is trying to say in his own lovably convoluted way is --- Buttigieg is not claiming himself as the necessary object of the "love those that are hurting", but is indicating that he's the one who's loving the ones who are hurting and we're not - and he's not weak in doing so.

    Maybe something like that.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  2. Amen NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  3. #1262
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    No one can be perfect here, and no one is. But this reply to Sam's post is closer to what one would expect of a heckler at an outdoor evangelistic service than a person that has accepted Christ.

    Why?
    I’m not surprised you’re fooled by his smug, holier than thou, attitude since you have a little bit of it yourself. A proper church should never look like a museum, but should resemble a hospital filled with the sick in need of healing. Maybe that’s your problem with Trump, he too much resembles the sick and dying and not enough of the perfection you seem to desire.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  4. #1263
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    I’m not surprised you’re fooled by his smug, holier than thou, attitude since you have a little bit of it yourself.
    Just a little bit?
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  5. #1264
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Just a little bit?
    I was trying to be a bit nice. I can’t stand smug people, the kind of, “Why are you doing a thing for them?” The answer to such a question is.....

    “Because we are supposed to.”
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  6. #1265
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    So, you're going to revert to the old liberal line "it's not even a human until...."? I have to admit, I am a LITTLE surprised.
    This is a tangent that's been covered a million times so there's no need to get into it. But, briefly:

    -- If we're going by biblical standards (or even much of modern Judaism), "life" equates to breath, which equates to birth. But that's not a necessary or even desirable standard so we should try to understand when an organism becomes a "being"

    -- A "being" necessitates the function of sensation and processing, which necessitates higher-level brain function. In human embryos, that higher-level brain function -- the fundamental substrate of personhood -- begins developing at 24 weeks and is typically developed around 30 weeks.

    -- Regardless of all of that, we're not bean counters. "Number of lives" is meritorious as a metric only inasmuch as it relates to "amount of suffering". And since the suffering of a single child is infinitely greater than the suffering of a thousand 12-week embryos, an ethicist will have to consider the possibility that the greater evil is the suffering of the child. Certainly, we take this approach to contraception (as gametes are living cells, much like zygotes) and organ donation of brain-dead persons.

    It is argued, therefore, that the purposeful oppression and suffering of children fleeing their dangerous homes to the protection of USA by separating them from their parents as a deterrent measure or forcing them to remain in Mexico while they await an asylum trial is a greater evil than abortions, at least those earlier than 24-30 weeks.

    --Sam
    "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"


  7. #1266
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    And people in comas don't have what can be called "a fully functioning brain" and depending on what you mean by that, neither do millions of people suffering from various neurological disorders. Is it okay to euthanize them as well?
    A false equivalence that seems purposeful; people with neurological disorders of the type you are implying have sufficiently functional brain function -- i.e., they possess the property or capacity of consciousness. We do, in fact, euthanize those whose brain function deteriorates to a level where the property or capacity of consciousness is irrevocably lost ("brain dead"). We do so without their consent, understanding they are no longer "persons" with the inalienable rights that come with personhood.

    --Sam
    "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"


  8. Amen Charles amen'd this post.
  9. #1267
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    An enemy of the cross doesn't believe I'm a true believer! I think I have the vapors!!!
    I believe you are an enemy of the cross. At least I don't claim to believe while others claim to believe so only to promote an agenda that is contrary to what Jesus taught.
    "That is the little thing, the small thing, which Trump demands of his followers: To call hot cold. To call black white. To call wrong right." Michael Gerson

  10. #1268
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    A response to a bunch of smug, arrogant holier-than-thou sanctimoniousness would be my guess.
    I think it's notable that Cow Poke and others can advocate for some standard of Christianity where someone like Buttigieg (or myself) can't be called Christian or even legitimately commentate on the Gospel without raising anyone's hackles -- but pointing out that cruelty and oppression are greater sins, by the same biblical standards, and are not only exhibited by people on this forum but supported in powerful Christians crafting policy for millions amounts to "sanctimoniousness".

    Now, that's just applying the same standard of biblical interpretation, focused on clear and pervasive themes throughout Hebrew and Christian Scriptures, and applied with the same priorities that Christ held in His teachings. Nothing that would be out of place in any seminary or even Sunday School discussion.

    If the knee-jerk reaction to that isn't introspection and rational assessment but defensive posturing ... well, no better day than a Sunday.

    --Sam
    "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"


  11. Amen Charles, oxmixmudd amen'd this post.
  12. #1269
    Department Head
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles View Post
    I believe you are an enemy of the cross. At least I don't claim to believe while others claim to believe so only to promote an agenda that is contrary to what Jesus taught.
    Trying to teach your grandmother to suck eggs I see Charles sorry it isn't Charity if you are forced to do it Charity comes from the heart you voluntarily give of yourself not force others to give that is what Jesus showed us he voluntarily gave of himself so much so that he went to the Cross. CP practices what he preaches and learned from Jesus he gives of himself he does not force others to give.

  13. Amen NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  14. #1270
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by RumTumTugger View Post
    Trying to teach your grandmother to suck eggs I see Charles sorry it isn't Charity if you are forced to do it Charity comes from the heart you voluntarily give of yourself not force others to give that is what Jesus showed us he voluntarily gave of himself so much so that he went to the Cross. CP practices what he preaches and learned from Jesus he gives of himself he does not force others to give.
    This is not adressing my points and assumes I hold opinions that I don't, so I am not going to comment further on it.
    "That is the little thing, the small thing, which Trump demands of his followers: To call hot cold. To call black white. To call wrong right." Michael Gerson

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