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Thread: Christianity Today Op Ed

  1. #1231
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    That may have been your inference, Sam, but it was not my implication.
    Sorry, man. Gotta call you on that one:

    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Yes, Christians should DEFINITELY get their explanation of Scripture from one who is living a lifestyle totally opposed by Scripture.
    That's absolutely clear in its implication. Can't go farther with this if you're going to deny what you were obviously saying in that retort.

    --Sam
    "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"


  2. Amen Charles amen'd this post.
  3. #1232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    Sorry, man. Gotta call you on that one:



    That's absolutely clear in its implication. Can't go farther with this if you're going to deny what you were obviously saying in that retort.

    --Sam
    I'll buy that, Sam. No need to be sorry.

    I didn't think further explanation was necessary for Charles, who is only here to Nanny "one side".
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  4. #1233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles View Post
    I knew someone would go for the ad hominem.
    tombstone.jpg
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  5. #1234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    I'll buy that, Sam. No need to be sorry.

    I didn't think further explanation was necessary for Charles, who is only here to Nanny "one side".
    So your retort to Charles was the implication that Buttigieg is not a legitimate commentator on Scripture by virtue of his same-sex marriage, correct?

    --Sam
    "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"


  6. #1235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    So your retort to Charles was the implication that Buttigieg is not a legitimate commentator on Scripture by virtue of his same-sex marriage, correct?

    --Sam
    No. It's because he's only using the scripture to justify his political aspirations and to justify his own lifestyle - and the lost world praises his "refreshing" approach to the Bible. And you left out my reference to his pro=abortion stand, squishy though it may be.

    Is it your believe that Buttigieg IS "a legitimate commentator", and we should accept him as an authority on the Word of God?
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  7. #1236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    No. It's because he's only using the scripture to justify his political aspirations and to justify his own lifestyle - and the lost world praises his "refreshing" approach to the Bible. And you left out my reference to his pro=abortion stand, squishy though it may be.

    Is it your believe that Buttigieg IS "a legitimate commentator", and we should accept him as an authority on the Word of God?
    Now I don't know Buttigieg but I know people who know Buttigieg and so I know that's not true.

    But, simply: you were implying that Buttigieg is not a legitimate commentator on Scripture, correct?

    --Sam
    "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"


  8. #1237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    Now I don't know Buttigieg but I know people who know Buttigieg and so I know that's not true.
    You know WHAT's not true, through this second/third hand sourcing of yours?

    But, simply: you were implying that Buttigieg is not a legitimate commentator on Scripture, correct?

    --Sam
    You're wording that like the crooked lawyer attempting to set a trap, Sam. Do you actually have a point?

    I do NOT trust Buttigieg - as a practicing homosexual and an advocate of abortion - to tell me how God's Word should be interpreted.

    OK, spring your trap!
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  9. #1238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    You know WHAT's not true, through this second/third hand sourcing of yours?



    You're wording that like the crooked lawyer attempting to set a trap, Sam. Do you actually have a point?

    I do NOT trust Buttigieg - as a practicing homosexual and an advocate of abortion - to tell me how God's Word should be interpreted.

    OK, spring your trap!
    I know it's not true that Buttigieg is "only using the scripture to justify his political aspirations and to justify his own lifestyle." And that's second-hand but close second-hand knowledge.

    And I'm setting no trap -- you caught yourself up in contradictions the moment you made the retort. You assert that Buttigieg is not a legitimate commentator of Scripture because he's a "practicing homosexual" and "an advocate of abortion".

    In the first case, my point was that a bevy of people, here and elsewhere, violate much more core aspects of Scripture concerning compassion and cruelty, support to the oppressed vs. support to the oppressor -- always without you and others challenging their legitimacy to use Scripture (Pence comes to mind, as do men like Graham, Huckabee, and any number of Republican politicians).

    In the second case, you are even more contradictory: you and others here routinely try to play both sides of fence when it comes to whether the government -- and Christian government officials -- should operate according to Scripture or to secular standards. Buttigieg's platform acknowledges abortion as a constitutional right, a position that remains the law of the land. Now, whenever we talk about Pence and Trump refusing refugees from coming to safety in America or whenever people try to defend the administration for separating children or forcing asylum seekers to wait in dangerous Mexico border towns, y'all immediately jump to how the government isn't the Church and can't be held to Christian strictures or standards. This has been applied not only to "government" as an abstract force but to Christian politicians and officials who are making these policies.

    So that's the trap you yourself set: you can't condemn Buttigieg as an illegitimate commentator of Scripture while giving a pass to others when they violate the more foundational principles of the Gospel or even when they violate biblical strictures in similar vein (e.g., remarriage, cohabitation, divorce).

    --Sam
    "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"


  10. Amen Charles amen'd this post.
  11. #1239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    I know it's not true that Buttigieg is "only using the scripture to justify his political aspirations and to justify his own lifestyle." And that's second-hand but close second-hand knowledge.
    So, I just take your second-hand word for it?

    And I'm setting no trap -- you caught yourself up in contradictions the moment you made the retort. You assert that Buttigieg is not a legitimate commentator of Scripture because he's a "practicing homosexual" and "an advocate of abortion".
    Do you believe abortion is wrong, Sam? Do you believe homosexuality is a sin? (I honestly don't know your positions on this, so I'm asking)

    In the first case, my point was that a bevy of people, here and elsewhere, violate much more core aspects of Scripture concerning compassion and cruelty, support to the oppressed vs. support to the oppressor -- always without you and others challenging their legitimacy to use Scripture (Pence comes to mind, as do men like Graham, Huckabee, and any number of Republican politicians).
    And, again, this assumes that any of us actually believe that any of these people are actually creating or supporting polices which are DESIGNED to violate scripture. That's what you keep missing. You ASSUME that, because there are bad results, that those are the goal, and that for THAT reason, this "bevy of people" are not up in arms attacking their faith.

    In the second case, you are even more contradictory:
    Gotta love ya. Let the twisting begin....

    you and others here routinely try to play both sides of fence when it comes to whether the government -- and Christian government officials -- should operate according to Scripture or to secular standards.
    I would love for EVERYBODY to operate according to Scriptural standards, Sam, but I'm a realist --- politics AIN'T Christian!

    Buttigieg's platform acknowledges abortion as a constitutional right, a position that remains the law of the land.
    That's why I refer to it as squishy, Sam --- he won't come out and say he's pro-abortion (that I have seen), but he sure plays to that crowd.

    Now, whenever we talk about Pence and Trump refusing refugees from coming to safety in America or whenever people try to defend the administration for separating children or forcing asylum seekers to wait in dangerous Mexico border towns, y'all
    I wish you could get it through your think head that I'm not "y'all".

    immediately jump to how the government isn't the Church and can't be held to Christian strictures or standards.
    Wow, please forgive me for stating the obvious.

    This has been applied not only to "government" as an abstract force but to Christian politicians and officials who are making these policies.
    That's a whole lot interesting word salad ya got going on there, Sam.

    So that's the trap you yourself set:
    Or, so you think.

    you can't condemn Buttigieg as an illegitimate commentator of Scripture while giving a pass to others when they violate the more foundational principles of the Gospel or even when they violate biblical strictures in similar vein (e.g., remarriage, cohabitation, divorce).

    --Sam
    OK, Clarence Darrow, here's where you go off the rails... Buttigieg actively supports and defends both homosexuality and abortion. Both of those issues, in and of themselves, are, in my opinion, against scripture.

    You're applying YOUR definition of what's "the more foundational principles of the Gospel" in your goofy attempt to "catch me" in a "trap". You're pretty much making the opposite error I made in my earlier ministry. I thought the "social gospel" was wrong because there wasn't the very foundational principle of REPENTANCE AND SALVATION (I think you ignored that part), and I kinda looked down on those who were involved in the "social gospel". Somewhere, around 20 years ago, I woke up and realized - Hey, we can do BOTH!!!! We can preach the word, including REPENTANCE AND SALVATION, AND minister to the poor, the homeless, the sick, etc..... Either without the other is not "the Gospel".

    I have both a lesbian couple attending my church, as well as a man and a woman who are not married to each other but are living together. I treat them the same on Sunday morning as I treat everybody else. I do NOT give them positions of biblical authority, or put them in positions of responsibility within the Church. I am thrilled that they come to hear the preaching of the Word. One of those persons is a city councilman (or woman ) and does NOT use that position to advocate sin or rebellion to the Word.

    Buttigieg advocates sin. (Unless, of course, you don't believe living in a homosexual union is sin, which would not surprise me)
    Trump and Pence, to my knowledge, are not advocating sin.

    What you're doing is looking at the consequences - and I argue unintentional consequences - of their polices and seeing those through the wild-eyed liberal view "TRUMP KILLS BABIES!" (or something like that)

    I'm not in a trap, Sam. I'm FREE!
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  12. Amen NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  13. #1240
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    Let's make it really really simple....

    abortion -- every successful abortion results in a dead body. 100% of the time.
    immigration - a convoluted screwed up policy that nobody in power seems to want to solve, the unintended consequences of which sometimes results in tragedy for children.

    These are not the same.
    Last edited by Cow Poke; 01-18-2020 at 03:17 PM.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  14. Amen NorrinRadd amen'd this post.

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