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  • #31
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Who decides that?
    That question reverses the point of my comments. Only certain kinds of logical statements are reversible like that CP. I don't have to provide a black and white line which must never be crossed to be able to say there are some situations where to be silent from the pulpit about politics would be wrong.

    But I hope we can agree that Nazi Germany would be an example where remaining silent from the pulpit about 'politics' was not an option.
    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
      That question reverses the point of my comments. Only certain kinds of logical statements are reversible like that CP. I don't have to provide a black and white line which must never be crossed to be able to say there are some situations where to be silent from the pulpit about politics would be wrong.
      And US politics is absolutely NOT one of them.

      But I hope we can agree that Nazi Germany would be an example where remaining silent from the pulpit about 'politics' was not an option.
      You honestly sincerely believe that a duly elected President, flawed though he may be, is equivalent to the murder of 6 million men, women and children for no other reason than that they were Jews?
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        All of which can be done without getting political in the pulpit. In fact, in this incredibly divisive nation, it can actually drive away people who need all of the above.



        You're really going to go with that? People are too stupid?
        That's not my point, but you did ask the question, so I answered it. My point is that a pastor can't always be silent on political issues.


        Where does the New Testament ever launch into politics, Jim? Where does the Bible ever even suggest that we tackle politics?
        Render unto Ceasar what is Ceasars, and to God what is Gods.

        Pray for your leaders ...

        You tell that snake ...

        What got John the Baptist put in prison and later beheaded? Wasn't is specifically calling out the immorality of Herod? Was he wrong to preach against the rulers immorality by name?
        Last edited by oxmixmudd; 12-20-2019, 11:44 AM.
        My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

        If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

        This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

        Comment


        • #34
          Well, it seems Donald Trump got rather angry when he read it. Now he has said "I won’t be reading ET again!" I suppose he is really talking about "CT" when writing "ET".

          It is no surprise that what he writes about Christianity Today includes a bunch of personal attacks and completely gives away his own idea of the deal he made with the Evangelicals. The Washington Post sums it up: "How dare you criticize me, after all the power I’ve granted to your movement? You’re breaking our deal, and now you’re dead to me."

          And here are some interesting and quite telling parts on their take of it:

          Indeed, the transactional cast to Trump’s rage over this is particularly instructive, once you understand that Trump and his top advisers have consciously enlisted the nation’s evangelicals as an army of Trump defenders in the war against impeachment, which is widely depicted in the evangelical movement as a kind of epic persecution of Trump carried out by the godless and the damned.
          As Galli noted, there is no longer any way to avoid acknowledging Trump’s moral and temperamental unfitness for the presidency. Continuing to look the other way to get more judges and so forth is no longer worth the moral and spiritual costs to Christianity itself.

          “The moral scales no longer balance,” Galli told the Atlantic. “We’ve been a movement that has said the moral character of our leaders is really important,” Galli continued, adding that the association of evangelicals with Trump will do “horrific” damage to their ability to share the Gospel with others.
          https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...away-his-scam/
          "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
            What got John the Baptist put in prison and later beheaded? Wasn't is specifically calling out the immorality of Herod? Was he wrong to preach against the rulers immorality by name?
            Yes, he condemned Herod to his face. But when people came to him to be baptized, he didn't start preaching politics to them.
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
              Yes, he condemned Herod to his face. But when people came to him to be baptized, he didn't start preaching politics to them.
              Do you suppose none of those same people he baptized where present when he rebuked herod? Do you suppose John did his rebuking in one place and his preaching in another?
              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                Tassman is much better at this than JimL, in my opinion.
                Pfft. Neither of them can hold a candle to Charles.
                Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                sigpic
                I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  And US politics is absolutely NOT one of them.



                  You honestly sincerely believe that a duly elected President, flawed though he may be, is equivalent to the murder of 6 million men, women and children for no other reason than that they were Jews?
                  That isn't what I said CP. Right now you are arguing it is NEVER ok to preach about politics or politicians from the pulpit. And I am saying that is not true. Sometimes you must. Is THIS situation one of those? The CT editor will say yes, but it's a matter of conscience to decide WHEN it is time. But it is wrong to say it is NEVER the time. This conversation follows from your assertion you would NEVER discuss politics from the pulpit.

                  ( I even said in my posts I was speaking of that general concept and not applying any absolute judgement that Trump was necessarily over that line, or even that there was an absolute line )
                  Last edited by oxmixmudd; 12-20-2019, 11:55 AM.
                  My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                  If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                  This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                    That's not my point, but you did ask the question, so I answered it. My point is that a pastor can't always be silent on political issues.
                    Issues, like abortion, where there is a clear moral problem, but I don't preach against persons. No need to.

                    Render unto Ceasar what is Ceasars, and to God what is Gods.
                    Yeah, not blasting Caesar, or challenging his politics or contesting the occupation of Israel, or..... that was actually an incredibly passive statement.

                    Pray for your leaders ...
                    Perhaps if his Christian critics would do a lot more of that....

                    You tell that snake ...
                    That's not preaching "the snake" from the pulpit, Jim.

                    What got John the Baptist put in prison and later beheaded? Wasn't is specifically calling out the immorality of Herod? Was he wrong to preach against the rulers immorality by name?
                    That made me smile --- you want me beheaded, don't you? THAT's what this is all about!
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      Issues, like abortion, where there is a clear moral problem, but I don't preach against persons. No need to.



                      Yeah, not blasting Caesar, or challenging his politics or contesting the occupation of Israel, or..... that was actually an incredibly passive statement.



                      Perhaps if his Christian critics would do a lot more of that....



                      That's not preaching "the snake" from the pulpit, Jim.



                      That made me smile --- you want me beheaded, don't you? THAT's what this is all about!
                      You have wondered outside the scope of our discussion and are trying to turn it into something personal. It is not.
                      My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                      If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                      This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                        That isn't what I said CP. Right now you are arguing it is NEVER ok to preach about politics or politicians from the pulpit.
                        Get that camel's nose under the tent flap, eh?

                        And I am saying that is not true. Sometimes you must. Is THIS situation one of those?
                        It is not.

                        The CT editor will say yes, but it's a matter of conscience to decide WHEN it is time. But it is wrong to say it is NEVER the time. This conversation follows from your assertion you would NEVER discuss politics from the pulpit.

                        ( I even said in my posts I was speaking of that general concept and not applying any absolute judgement that Trump was necessarily over that line, or even that there was an absolute line )
                        Given your history, Jim...
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                          You have wondered outside the scope of our discussion and are trying to turn it into something personal. It is not.
                          Of course.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                            Pfft. Neither of them can hold a candle to Charles.
                            We outta have a contest, and the prize money.... (I have $1.37)... can go to liberaltalkingpointsfordummies.com!
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              And US politics is absolutely NOT one of them.
                              The CT editor would disagree with you as regards the evangelical support of Donald Trump and his actions in Ukraine. And so would I.

                              HOWEVER: The point of my argument is not this specific situation but the general assertion it is NEVER ok to discuss politics from the pulpit.
                              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                                Gospel, not politics. Issues, not people.
                                And wouldn't that mess with your tax exempt status?
                                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                                Comment

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