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Thread: Fulfilled prophecy - A famine of the word of the Lord

  1. #11
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    The text of Malachi is not evidence for a 400 years famine. Again there is not any archaeological evidence for a 400 year famine. There is archaeological and geologic evidence for periods of famines all over the world including Egypt and the Middle East most commonly due to cycles of drought
    I believe you're misunderstanding, the famine predicted was not one of food, but of hearing the word of the Lord.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  2. #12
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    I believe you're misunderstanding, the famine predicted was not one of food, but of hearing the word of the Lord.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    There is evidence of cyclic famines all over the ancient world particularly where there are records like in Egypt and the China, and there is geologic evidence that corresponds to the cyclic famines due to periods of drought in part due to the progressive aridity of the arid regions of the Middle East and China. It is anecdotal, but in Western China I found wind blown loess and sand dunes over rice fields, irrigation ditches, and the roots of Aspen and Poplar trees.

    You did not make this remotely true of your claim early in the thread, and it remains a more subjective and weak a claim concerning what the prophecy? of 400 years famine represents.
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  3. #13
    tWebber Roy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    It's not remotely true if you don't exclude the Apocrypha, since even taking the most extreme dates possible places Sirach as being written 340 years after Malachi.
    Well, 300 years is a long time, long enough to call it a famine.
    But clearly not long enough to call it 400 years. That Dory does not retract obviously false claims is an excellent reason to reject anything else he says.
    Well, the claim is that Malachi was written about 430 B.C., so yes, there's room for 400 years.
    There is not room for 400 years between Malachi and Sirach. Giving only the date for Malachi avoids having to admit that. As usual, Dory is being both forgetful and deceptive.

    Though the prophecy is about new prophecy appearing, searching for the word of the Lord and not finding it refers to fresh revelation.


    Not at all, there was a long period without prophecy.


    But there has been New Testament prophecy (re Acts 11:27, 1 Cor. 14:3).

    Blessings,
    Lee[/QUOTE]
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  4. #14
    tWebber Roy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill
    It's not remotely true if you don't exclude the Apocrypha, since even taking the most extreme dates possible places Sirach as being written 340 years after Malachi.
    Well, 300 years is a long time, long enough to call it a famine.
    But clearly not long enough to call it 400 years. That Dory does not retract obviously false claims is an excellent reason to reject anything else he says.
    Well, the claim is that Malachi was written about 430 B.C., so yes, there's room for 400 years.
    There is not room for 400 years between Malachi and Sirach. Giving only the date for Malachi avoids having to admit that. As usual, Dory is being both forgetful accidentally and forgetful on purpose.
    Then, since Dory hasn't named any prophets from the last 1900 years, they are a better fulfilment of the prophecy than the period he chose.
    But there has been New Testament prophecy (re Acts 11:27, 1 Cor. 14:3).
    Neither Acts nor Corinthians fit within the last 1900 years. Which raises another possible reason why Dory keeps insisting that Malachi to Sirach is 400+ years - he can't do handle arithmetic.
    Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

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  5. #15
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    Though the prophecy is about new prophecy appearing, searching for the word of the Lord and not finding it refers to fresh revelation.
    No, that would be your personal interpretation of the passage. You would have been better served to have proffered it for critique in a Christian-only area than as TRVTH in a debate with skeptics.
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    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy View Post
    There is not room for 400 years between Malachi and Sirach.
    You may have noticed I don't consider Sirach a word from the Lord.

    Neither Acts nor Corinthians fit within the last 1900 years.
    Yet Paul expected prophecy in each church service, the word of the Lord is not to be rare in Christianity.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  7. #17
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    No, that would be your personal interpretation of the passage.
    Well, what better interpretation would there be?

    "In those days the word of the LORD was rare; there were not many visions." (1 Sam. 3:1)

    Which has a parallel "the word of the Lord was rare", "not many visions."

    You would have been better served to have proffered it for critique in a Christian-only area than as TRVTH in a debate with skeptics.
    And I believe it is true, I trust you do as well, and I proffer it as encouragement as well as for critique.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  8. #18
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    Well, what better interpretation would there be?

    "In those days the word of the LORD was rare; there were not many visions." (1 Sam. 3:1)

    Which has a parallel "the word of the Lord was rare", "not many visions."
    As far as I can see, the most straightforward interpretation is that it was fulfilled when Israel was destroyed by the Assyrians, who deported all the leaders of the people (which would have included priests/prophets). There was then a famine of the word of the Lord in the land, for there was no one to lead them in worship, or to consult when the wanted to hear the Lord's words.
    And I believe it is true, I trust you do as well, and I proffer it as encouragement as well as for critique.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    I think your interpretation is quite far-fetched, and not consonant with the context.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio

    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

  9. Amen Roy amen'd this post.
  10. #19
    tWebber Roy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    You may have noticed I don't consider Sirach a word from the Lord.
    You may have forgotten what you actually wrote: "Amos here prophesies that hearing the words of the Lord will cease, there will be a famine of the word of the Lord. And this was true for 400 years, especially if, as protestants do, you exclude the Apocrypha from the canon.
    Yet Paul expected prophecy in each church service, the word of the Lord is not to be rare in Christianity.
    That has nothing to do with your mistake in citing the New Testament as a response to there not having been any prophets in the last 1900 years.
    Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

    mikewhitney: What if the speed of light changed when light is passing through water? ... I have 3 semesters of college Physics.

    Mountain Man: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.

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