Do you accept the Christian argument that if we die not believing in Jesus as our Savior, we will be eternally damned? What would be the proper response? Isn't this ''appeal to fear''?
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Forum Rules: Here
This forum is strictly for discussions and debates between nontheists and hard agnostics only. The topic range is for nontheist "in house" issues much like Theology201/Ecclesiology201 is for "in house" Christian/theist issues.
This area is not to be used to unfairly substantively rebut/discuss/criticize specific other members who cannot respond or defend. It also is not be used as a platform to simply stack arguments against theism with the intent that they cannot be responded to here, but interactions between different nontheist viewpoints is highly encouraged. Arguments simply directed towards rebutting or disproving theism should be posted in Apologetics 301.
Additionally, gratuitous blasphemy or mocking of Christians will not be sanctioned in this area. If you wish to mock, please do it where the mocked can respond. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and do not abuse this area.
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Do you fear hell?
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The proper response is a metaphorical pat on the head. Since humanity became anatomically modern a few hundred thousand years ago, we've had tens of thousands of gods. None of them were real. None of their threats or promises were real, either.
Typically, there are five stages of grief: denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. It's entirely possible to stop at any stage along the way.
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Originally posted by Juvenal View PostTypically, there are five stages of grief: denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. It's entirely possible to stop at any stage along the way.
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• Edited by a Moderator •
First off, thanks! I'd been afraid somehow this thread would escape the inevitable wayward theist incursion.
Fearing hell is childish.
I've seen people die, Leonhard. I've watched the monitors as they flatline. The heart stops. The brain ceases to function. Brain chemistry ends. No further memories can be saved or recalled. No further actions are possible.
When you're dead, it's over. That's why we're afraid of death.
Being afraid of what you might experience after you can't experience anymore is the archetype of irrationality. And to answer Seeker, to think you're going to experience things after you're dead is to remain mired in denial.Last edited by DesertBerean; 02-26-2020, 09:40 AM.
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Originally posted by Seeker View PostDo you accept the Christian argument that if we die not believing in Jesus as our Savior, we will be eternally damned?
Originally posted by Seeker View PostWhat would be the proper response?
Originally posted by Seeker View PostIsn't this ''appeal to fear''?
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Originally posted by Seeker View PostDo you accept the Christian argument that if we die not believing in Jesus as our Savior, we will be eternally damned?
What would be the proper response? Isn't this ''appeal to fear''?
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Originally posted by Whateverman View PostI would say that Christians generally don't worry the least about the consequences of not believing in the tenets of other religions, so if they're going to casually dismiss those other tenets, I can likewise dismiss theirs.
Originally posted by Whateverman View PostYes, it is.
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Originally posted by Juvenal View PostFirst off, thanks! I'd been afraid somehow this thread would escape the inevitable wayward theist incursion.
Fearing hell is childish.
I've seen people die, Leonhard. I've watched the monitors as they flatline. The heart stops. The brain ceases to function. Brain chemistry ends. No further memories can be saved or recalled. No further actions are possible.
When you're dead, it's over. That's why we're afraid of death.
Being afraid of what you might experience after you can't experience anymore is the archetype of irrationality. And to answer Seeker, to think you're going to experience things after you're dead is to remain mired in denial.
When death comes we are not there."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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Originally posted by Seeker View PostDo you accept the Christian argument that if we die not believing in Jesus as our Savior, we will be eternally damned? What would be the proper response? Isn't this ''appeal to fear''?"It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostThe notion of hellfire and damnation is a much later Christian construct. The word hell does not occur in the New Testament.
and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for
thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell" (Matthew 5:29)?
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Note: I have permission to post here from the mods and seeker.
Originally posted by Seeker View PostDo you accept the Christian argument that if we die not believing in Jesus as our Savior, we will be eternally damned?
What would be the proper response? Isn't this ''appeal to fear''?
"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."
The Christian god falls into the unjust category. I'd rather live my life as good as possible without him than to waste my time dedicating myself to him just to get away from hell. Hell is absolutely about fear and giving the recipient a Hobson's choice. Just like I cannot have a "loving" relationship with a human narcissist who demands all of my loyalty, I realized when I was deconstructing my former faith that I cannot have a loving relationship with a god who acts the same way."Concentrate on what you have to do. Fix your eyes on it. Remind yourself that your task is to be a good human being; remind yourself what nature demands of people. Then do it, without hesitation, and speak the truth as you see it. But with kindness. With humility. Without hypocrisy."
-Marcus Aurelius
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Originally posted by Seeker View PostSo what about that one from the KJV: "And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out,
and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for
thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell" (Matthew 5:29)?"It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostThat is a translation into English. The original Greek in that verse is γέεενναν which is translated as Gehenna. This is thought to have been an actual physical location near Jerusalem. The site is supposed to have had connections with Israelite early practises of child sacrifice - hence the "Moloch" deity found in the Hebrew bible. It was later deemed to be an accursed place.
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Originally posted by Seeker View PostDo you accept the Christian argument that if we die not believing in Jesus as our Savior, we will be eternally damned? What would be the proper response? Isn't this ''appeal to fear''?
Last edited by Bill the Cat; 08-27-2020, 09:49 AM.Many and painful are the researches sometimes necessary to be made, for settling points of [this] kind. Pertness and ignorance may ask a question in three lines, which it will cost learning and ingenuity thirty pages to answer. When this is done, the same question shall be triumphantly asked again the next year, as if nothing had ever been written upon the subject.
George Horne
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