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On Christianity And Guns

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  • On Christianity And Guns

    How should we handle this issue?

    Link

    ------

    What are my thoughts on the shooting in Texas? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

    So Sunday there was a shooting in a church. You might not have heard much debate about gun control because this one was stopped early on. There were at least seven people in the church who were concealed carry and I understand one of them was an elderly lady.

    It’s kind of interesting to me that when a shooting takes place and no one is there to stop it, we ask how we can stop it. When it takes place and there is someone there to stop it, the message never gets out of “This is how you stop it.” Why not go with the method that works when it’s used? (Kind of like when abstinence is practiced, it works 100% of the time)

    It’s also interesting that we also had this right after a rabbi was attacked and I saw people talking about anti-semitism immediately, and they should. However, when a church has a near mass shooting, did you hear anyone talk about the concerns of anti-Christianity? Yeah. I didn’t either.

    So Monday I’m browsing on Facebook and see people talk about this and the question is asking how Christians should handle this. The shooter in the church was shot by a Christian. Is this the right response for those who follow the Prince of Peace?

    To begin with, let’s talk about who is really destroying peace in these situations. In this church, Christians were going forward to take Communion which should be an especially sacred time in a church service. The peace was interrupted by a man who was bent on evil and he was not open to listening to reason.

    Some people might say that Jesus turned the other cheek, but Jesus is talking about receiving a personal insult there in a private setting. He is not talking about anything that is life-threatening. Do we think Jesus could say today, “If anyone shoots your son, give him your daughter to shoot as well. If anyone kills your wife, give him your mother to kill as well.”

    Where I have been debating this, I have had someone quoting all of Matthew 5:38-42 to me. In wanting to find out how much they take this seriously, I have brought up that Jesus says to give to anyone whatever they request of you. I then say I request you give all of your money to my ministry. I have yet to see any major deposits yet.

    But doesn’t Romans 12 tell us to live in peace? Yes, if it is possible. Sometimes it isn’t. We all know people, sometimes sadly family members, that we just have to avoid. Romans 12 also says to not seek revenge. How does this apply? Let’s consider the movie Joker for an example.

    The character who becomes the Joker, Arthur, is on a subway at one point getting beat up by these three Wall Street prep people. Suddenly, he pulls out a gun he has and shoots and kills two of them. The third one is wounded. At this point, Arthur chases after him as the man is trying to flee. He then shoots him again to finish him off.

    I contend that the first two deaths in that scene were self-defense. The third one, was not. This was a man trying to get away and it was a kill that was done just for revenge. Sure, he had been doing evil earlier, but at this point he was no longer a threat.

    But doesn’t 1 Peter 2 tell us to bear up under unjust suffering? Yes, if we are slaves who cannot do anything against our masters. That doesn’t say anything about real harm being done to innocents that puts them in a life-threatening situation.

    But aren’t we told also repeatedly not to cling to our lives? Depends on the situation. If you take it in this hard and fast way, then if you have a terminal disease, it is wrong to seek treatment. If so, then shouldn’t Jesus have condemned all those people who came to Him for healing?

    Some people might be concerned about the idea of good guys with guns. Keep in mind that apparently this church had several regular members who had concealed carries. This was the first instance we have heard of violence taking place in that church.

    It’s also interesting that so many secularists keep telling me about how good man is and how far we have progressed, and yet at the same time don’t think your average man can carry a gun without wanting to shoot everyone. Now I fully believe that man is a fallen creature, but I also think, as well as I understand Aquinas did, that most of what we do in our lives is not sinful. Most of us do not live in fear of our fellow man constantly. Maybe some fellow men, but not all.

    In the end, I contend that Christians ought to be able to defend the innocent from those who want to hurt them. I have often said that if someone wanted to physically assault my wife in any way, the only way they would be able to do so is literally over my dead body. I have a sworn vow to protect her from harm and intend to follow it through.

    And if you are concerned about the evil within, well do something about it. I hear Christianity has a great system of repentance set up to deal with evil. Maybe give it a try?

    In Christ,
    Nick Peters

  • #2
    Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View Post
    Why not go with the method that works when it’s used? (Kind of like when abstinence is practiced, it works 100% of the time)
    I can think of one time when it didn't work, but that turned out pretty cool.



    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      I can think of one time when it didn't work, but that turned out pretty cool.



      Sounds like a virgin birth, which I do affirm.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View Post
        Sounds like a virgin birth, which I do affirm.
        Amen.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #5
          As I posted elsewhere online, we need to distinguish between guns and gun culture. Roger Olson wrote aboit how he saw somebody with a Guns and Gods bumper sticker and thought he needed to go under formal biblical church discipline. While I wouldn't go that far, I am concerned with how some Christians seem to have adopted some of the excesses of gun culture that go beyond biblically defensible self defense. I had one co worker who was a professing Christian who liked to talk about shooting liberals and obsessively posted memes about gun violence in general being good.

          I made the analogy of alcohol and guns both being fine in their place but both having a sick culture grow up around them.
          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
            As I posted elsewhere online, we need to distinguish between guns and gun culture. Roger Olson wrote aboit how he saw somebody with a Guns and Gods bumper sticker and thought he needed to go under formal biblical church discipline. While I wouldn't go that far, I am concerned with how some Christians seem to have adopted some of the excesses of gun culture that go beyond biblically defensible self defense. I had one co worker who was a professing Christian who liked to talk about shooting liberals and obsessively posted memes about gun violence in general being good.

            I made the analogy of alcohol and guns both being fine in their place but both having a sick culture grow up around them.
            I was always involved in competition shooting as a police officer. It was much more fun then, because they supplied all the ammo. I still enjoy competition shooting, but nowhere near like I used to.

            So, for me, guns are not just about entertainment, but about hobby/competition -- which works out well, because if I ever had to use a gun for self defense, I'd say I'm a whole lot more proficient than a lot of people who have guns.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              I was always involved in competition shooting as a police officer. It was much more fun then, because they supplied all the ammo. I still enjoy competition shooting, but nowhere near like I used to.

              So, for me, guns are not just about entertainment, but about hobby/competition -- which works out well, because if I ever had to use a gun for self defense, I'd say I'm a whole lot more proficient than a lot of people who have guns.
              Just to be clear, that's not what I mean by negative gun culture. I'm thinking more of street gangs or people who think the idea of killing people is funny. I think shooting competitions are cool personally.
              "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                Just to be clear, that's not what I mean by negative gun culture.
                Yeah, I didn't think so, I just felt like posting.

                I'm thinking more of street gangs or people who think the idea of killing people is funny.
                And the whole rap/gansta music culture promotes that bigly.

                I think shooting competitions are cool personally.
                And I think somebody who's actually involved in something like that is going to be much more careful with handling guns in public, and storing them safely.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment

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