Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Trump, the I'll be to busy to play golf, President.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    Even with his pen and phone he never closed Gitmo.
    Bad, ignorant example. Obama reduced the prisoner population at Guantanamo Bay from ~250 to ~50. When Republicans won the House in 2010, Congress began blocking the transfer of prisoners to USA, meaning the remaining prisoners who could not be relocated to other countries literally could not be moved out of area.

    It remains a failure of the Obama administration and of Congress but it's not like Obama didn't try to and partially succeed in closing out Guantanamo.

    --Sam
    "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

    Comment


    • #47
      Oh man,

      Trump's basically embezzling money and a lot of it. That's all this reduces to, Leonard. Trump's actions, as laid out by Jim, is simply embezzlement.

      It's not a small matter, but a big deal, and not analogous to previous presidents. Past presidents sold their businesses or put their assets in blind trusts, but in choosing to exclusively go to his own expensive resort our leader is choosing to waste tax payer money in ways that's beneficial to him personally. It's not "a bit slimy" but the most basic, serious kind of corruption to fight in any government. IE, kickbacks and self dealing

      Of course, Trump is broke and needs the money so I can't be too hard on the guy. Everyone needs a side hustle these days (◠‿◕)
      Last edited by Jaecp; 01-02-2020, 03:04 PM.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
        This is a legitimate topic
        I agree. I would like to have seen Trump's funneling of government money into his personal businesses (aka an Emoluments Clause violation of the Constitution) on the list of impeachment charges.

        Not to mention this would have legally justified a detailed root-around in Trump's taxes (which he'll Totally Release As Promised any day now, I'm sure) and finances by professionals who can check whether the numerous other things that look like they're probably crimes in his financial history really are crimes or not while they're at it. Plus, we could finally have a public release of his tax returns, like every other Presidential candidate in modern history has done, and learn what he's been so desperate to hide.

        My cynical view of an emoluments impeachment charge and a Trump-finances investigation isn't happening is that the big money donors told the Dems they didn't like the idea of anyone ever being investigated or charged for financial crimes.
        "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
        "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
        "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Jaecp View Post
          Oh man,

          Trump's basically embezzling money and a lot of it. That's all this reduces to, Leonard. Trump's actions, as laid out by Jim, is simply embezzlement.

          It's not a small matter, but a big deal, and not analogous to previous presidents. Past presidents sold their businesses or put their assets in blind trusts, but in choosing to exclusively go to his own expensive resort our leader is choosing to waste tax payer money in ways that's beneficial to him personally. It's not "a bit slimy" but the most basic, serious kind of corruption to fight in any government. IE, kickbacks and self dealing

          Of course, Trump is broke and needs the money so I can't be too hard on the guy. Everyone needs a side hustle these days (◠‿◕)


          If your tin foil hat theory, is true, why didn’t the democrats impeach him for this vs for a made up crime? Inquiring minds would love to hear your answer.
          "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
          GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Starlight View Post
            I agree. I would like to have seen Trump's funneling of government money into his personal businesses (aka an Emoluments Clause violation of the Constitution) on the list of impeachment charges.

            Not to mention this would have legally justified a detailed root-around in Trump's taxes (which he'll Totally Release As Promised any day now, I'm sure) and finances by professionals who can check whether the numerous other things that look like they're probably crimes in his financial history really are crimes or not while they're at it. Plus, we could finally have a public release of his tax returns, like every other Presidential candidate in modern history has done, and learn what he's been so desperate to hide.

            My cynical view of an emoluments impeachment charge and a Trump-finances investigation isn't happening is that the big money donors told the Dems they didn't like the idea of anyone ever being investigated or charged for financial crimes.
            So the Democrats are as big of criminals, as you accuse Trump as being?
            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
              So the Democrats are as big of criminals, as you accuse Trump as being?
              The rich donors, who give money to the corporate wing of the Dem party and the entire Republican party, probably are, yes. That's why it's so important to support the progressive wing of the Dem party, the Justice Democrats who denounce the corruption and refuse to take money from big donors and who are people-powered... Sanders, AOC, the rest of 'the squad', etc. If you vote for anyone else in either party, all you end up with is the policy that the rich donors want, not what's good for you or America.

              I think this rampant corruption is the single biggest issue in US politics, and it's why it's so essential to get a constitutional change to prevent corruption (or lacking that, a Democratic-appointed SCOTUS who will rule against corruption unlike the Republican judges on SCOUTUS have been doing... it's pretty telling that all the SCOTUS cases about corruption go down party lines with the Republicans being pro-corruption and the Democrats anti-corruption), and elect the candidates who are refusing to take big donor money and being funded by small donations from the mass of the populace only (all candidates running as such are Dems).
              Last edited by Starlight; 01-02-2020, 03:53 PM.
              "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
              "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
              "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                So the Democrats are as big of criminals, as you accuse Trump as being?
                This seems to be one of those issues that people love getting up in arms about when it's not their guy, but everybody really knows it's much ado about nothing.
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post


                  If your tin foil hat theory, is true, why didn’t the democrats impeach him for this vs for a made up crime? Inquiring minds would love to hear your answer.
                  Maybe "Trump plays too much golf" didn't do well in focus group testing.
                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                    And you don’t think the money that the Secret Service pays the Bushes and Clinton’s, doesn’t feed their bank accounts and contribute to their net worth?




                    Trump owns the resort Jim, no different that the case of other ex presidents. I think you’re just trying to act as though they are different because of your TDS is, yet again, affecting you. There’s no difference, taxpayer money is being used to pay presidents for government usage. Same thing every government employee gets.



                    Problem is your theory is a classic case of TDS. The government is using facilities not owned by the government. Since the third amendment prevents the government from stationing government agents, in these facilities, they have to pay for it.



                    I’m not excusing anything. I’m explaining how and why it’s works that way. The government has to provide the president security, if the government doesn’t own the facilities it requires, it has to pay rent to use these facilities. This is why your logic falls flat, the government had to pay Bush, who would visit his private ranch, if they use his land or facilities to carry out their work. It has to do the same for Obama or Clinton too.
                    The issue is that it's embezzlement. If Trump was going to golf courses not owned by him, it would not be a conflict of interest. The problem is he owns them. And that makes all the difference in the world. There (likely) is no conflict of interest when he doesn't own them, he's just going to play golf. Then the issue is how much he plays golf and should he be spending that much taxpayor money to play gold. But there is no impropriety, no conflict of interest, no legal issues. But when he owns the resorts he plays at, and even more so when he only visits those resorts that he owns, it becomes completely self serving and way outside to bounds of what is legally, morally acceptable in normal circumstances. He's not just playing golf anymore, he is channeling US tax dollars into his own private business, and using the office of POTUS as a means to do it. He's lining his pockets under the guise of playing golf. And that is a major issue.
                    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                      The rich donors, who give money to the corporate wing of the Dem party and the entire Republican party, probably are, yes. That's why it's so important to support the progressive wing of the Dem party, the Justice Democrats who denounce the corruption and refuse to take money from big donors and who are people-powered... Sanders, AOC, the rest of 'the squad', etc. If you vote for anyone else in either party, all you end up with is the policy that the rich donors want, not what's good for you or America.

                      I think this rampant corruption is the single biggest issue in US politics, and it's why it's so essential to get a constitutional change to prevent corruption (or lacking that, a Democratic-appointed SCOTUS who will rule against corruption unlike the Republican judges on SCOUTUS have been doing... it's pretty telling that all the SCOTUS cases about corruption go down party lines with the Republicans being pro-corruption and the Democrats anti-corruption), and elect the candidates who are refusing to take big donor money and being funded by small donations from the mass of the populace only (all candidates running as such are Dems).
                      All of them love to say they will rid the government of corruption, if elected, only to become the corrupt themselves.
                      "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                      GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                        The issue is that it's embezzlement. If Trump was going to golf courses not owned by him, it would not be a conflict of interest. The problem is he owns them. And that makes all the difference in the world. There (likely) is no conflict of interest when he doesn't own them, he's just going to play golf. Then the issue is how much he plays golf and should he be spending that much taxpayor money to play gold. But there is no impropriety, no conflict of interest, no legal issues. But when he owns the resorts he plays at, and even more so when he only visits those resorts that he owns, it becomes completely self serving and way outside to bounds of what is legally, morally acceptable in normal circumstances. He's not just playing golf anymore, he is channeling US tax dollars into his own private business, and using the office of POTUS as a means to do it. He's lining his pockets under the guise of playing golf. And that is a major issue.
                        Than why didn’t congress impeach him for that?

                        "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                        GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          This seems to be one of those issues that people love getting up in arms about when it's not their guy, but everybody really knows it's much ado about nothing.
                          No - people that are not the president go to jail over this 'much ado about nothing'. As I said, if it was just that he was playing golf, it would just be the hypocrisy of condemning Obama for playing too much gold and then turning around and playing even more golf than Obama did on the Tax payer's dollar. But this is different, way different. Trump plays golf at HIS resorts, meaning that the money spent on playing golf is actually a means of propping up (or increasing the profit margin of) his own businesses. And that is a big deal.
                          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                            Than why didn’t congress impeach him for that?

                            I do not know pix. But the fact they didn't doesn't make it ok. There is a very long list of Trump actions that violate the emoluments clause. But for whatever the reason, they did not include those in the articles of impeachment.
                            My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                            If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                            This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              The mainstream Democratic party is full of people who are political cowards more afraid of their opposition than their supporters and who don't trust complicated accusations of wrongdoing to survive in a media atmosphere like this one

                              They absolutely should have impeached over this, but impeachment is a political action.

                              Trump is a rapist
                              Trump is an embezzler
                              Trump is a fraudster

                              Trump is unuindicted co conspirator for dozens of more felonies related to his campaign

                              The dude is an obvious criminal, but he can't be indicted, and Democrats don't know how to mention and they operate from a place of fearing loss more than anything else.

                              There, folks,

                              Now you know the broad strokes of why Dems didn't impeach day 1. There were 2 years of crimes committed blatantly and out in the open and Trumps criminal actions have gotten less shocking as we've gotten numb as a people.

                              He was impeachable under the emoluments clause on day 1 of his presidency, but zero investigations into his criminality were able to be done by the house because the Republicans were actively providing cover for a criminal.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                                I do not know pix. But the fact they didn't doesn't make it ok. There is a very long list of Trump actions that violate the emoluments clause. But for whatever the reason, they did not include those in the articles of impeachment.
                                If that was true, than the only logical reason that the Democrats choose not to impeach for this crime is because it would expose their own crimes, of a similar nature.
                                "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                                GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by little_monkey, 03-27-2024, 04:19 PM
                                16 responses
                                160 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post One Bad Pig  
                                Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
                                53 responses
                                400 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Mountain Man  
                                Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
                                25 responses
                                114 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
                                33 responses
                                198 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Roy
                                by Roy
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
                                84 responses
                                379 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post JimL
                                by JimL
                                 
                                Working...
                                X