Are not Elohim and Yahweh two names for one and the same god in the Hebrew bible? If so, wasn't Asherah the wife of Elohim, ergo the wife of Yahweh. Was the more ancient understanding of the Hebrew god one of a god that had a wife named Asherah? If not, who was she, and why was she a figure of worship in 1 and 2 Kings?
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This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
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Asherah, the wife of god?
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Elohim is a title, not a name (and a plural word form, to boot). Asherah was a Canaanite fertility goddess, and a figure of worship in 1 and 2 kings because the Hebrews had a predilection for assimilating the practices of those around them despite explicit prohibition of doing so.
The views of the Religionsgeschichtliche Schule have always struck me as seeing what one wants to see.Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostElohim is a title, not a name (and a plural word form, to boot). Asherah was a Canaanite fertility goddess, and a figure of worship in 1 and 2 kings because the Hebrews had a predilection for assimilating the practices of those around them despite explicit prohibition of doing so.
The views of the Religionsgeschichtliche Schule have always struck me as seeing what one wants to see.
Yahweh is a proper noun and the personal name of God whereas Elohim is a common plural[1] noun and can mean several things such as plural "gods" (Exodus 12:12; Deuteronomy 5:7; I Samuel 28:13) as well as God in the singular (Genesis 1:1)[2]. Many of the former uses, appear to reflect the fact that throughout much of their history the early Israelites were not strictly monotheistic but ranged from also worshiping false gods to worshiping only Yahweh but according (often lesser) divine status to these false gods.
1. the "im" suffix gives it away.
2. usually associated with Yahweh but not always such as in I Kings 11:33 when used to describe Moab's god Chemosh.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostAre not Elohim and Yahweh two names for one and the same god in the Hebrew bible? If so, wasn't Asherah the wife of Elohim, ergo the wife of Yahweh. Was the more ancient understanding of the Hebrew god one of a god that had a wife named Asherah? If not, who was she, and why was she a figure of worship in 1 and 2 Kings?
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Originally posted by mikewhitney View PostAre you reading through the Hebrew scriptures?
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Such writings would not be unexpected within Israel's history. The Bible mentions many times when people fell into idolatry. Though, somehow they still maintained the testimony against their behavior, as found in the enduring scriptures. The ancient history was full of expectation that the neighbors had something better going on -- and the tribes of Israel were no exception to this. Even today, we have people who have lived as Christians but got attracted to idolatry.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostRead them. But I came across a book claiming evidence that EL and Yahweh were basically synonomous and that Asherah was a goddess and the wife of EL. There were also ancient sculptures found on the which were etched things such as Blessed was so and so who was saved (or something to that effect) by Yaweh and his Asherah.Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette
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Originally posted by mikewhitney View PostSuch writings would not be unexpected within Israel's history. The Bible mentions many times when people fell into idolatry. Though, somehow they still maintained the testimony against their behavior, as found in the enduring scriptures. The ancient history was full of expectation that the neighbors had something better going on -- and the tribes of Israel were no exception to this. Even today, we have people who have lived as Christians but got attracted to idolatry.Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette
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Several scholars believe Israel just assimilated the names Elohim and Yah from other cultures to make it easier to assimilate them into monotheistic belief in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.That's what
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As an aside, yesterday I saw a car in front of me that was festooned with bumper stickers saying things like "Jesus is my Lord" and the like except one that read "God's Princess Olami."
Anyone know anything about that?
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by JimL View PostWas the more ancient understanding of the Hebrew god one of a god that had a wife named Asherah?
King Josiah (7th cent BC) instituted massive religious reforms during which the book of Deuteronomy was "discovered" (i.e. written to give authority to the new organisation of the religion) and the previous polytheism was massively streamlined toward monotheism. Various pre-existing scriptural writings (Genesis through Numbers, and others) were gradually merged and worked over to conform more closely to the new orthodoxy, and the gods that were kept (Yahweh and Elohim) were identified as the Same God. The Old Testament as we know it today took shape during Josiah's reign and the century that followed."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostUntil around the 6th century BC, polytheism was normal in Israel. Yahweh, El, and Ba'al were commonly worshiped, as was Yahweh's wife Asherah.
King Josiah (7th cent BC) instituted massive religious reforms during which the book of Deuteronomy was "discovered" (i.e. written to give authority to the new organisation of the religion) and the previous polytheism was massively streamlined toward monotheism. Various pre-existing scriptural writings (Genesis through Numbers, and others) were gradually merged and worked over to conform more closely to the new orthodoxy, and the gods that were kept (Yahweh and Elohim) were identified as the Same God. The Old Testament as we know it today took shape during Josiah's reign and the century that followed.Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostThat's quite the imaginative theory."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by JimL View PostAre not Elohim and Yahweh two names for one and the same god in the Hebrew bible? If so, wasn't Asherah the wife of Elohim, ergo the wife of Yahweh. Was the more ancient understanding of the Hebrew god one of a god that had a wife named Asherah? If not, who was she, and why was she a figure of worship in 1 and 2 Kings?
Maybe the emphasis on JHWH as King, and the similarity of JHWH to Baal and to El in several respects, led to the acquisition of Asherah as JHWH’s heavenly consort. Which would explain the frequent references in Kings to the (repeated) suppression of the cult of Baal and Asherah. Both Baal, and El, were gods of kingship; though not in all their cult-centres.
It would make a lot of sense if Asherah was the “Queen of Heaven” in Jeremiah 7 & 44, with a touch of the Assyrian great goddess Ishtar perhaps, and if the court theology of the Kingdom of Judah had included the Queen of Heaven as JHWH’s consort. Treating this theology as an aberration would fit with the political rejection of Assyrian overlordship in the 8th century, and of Babylonian overlordship in the years leading up to the disaster of 587/6. Gods, and politics, went together. On this theory, the Jews who maintained the worship of the QofH may have been trying to preserve a customary cultus, in order perhaps to gain the restoration of the Kingdom of Judah.
Asherah may have been the heavenly counterpart of the earthly Queen mother. These ladies are often mentioned in Kings, because the former quuen-consort often had considerable power and influence in her own right, as the examples of Jezebel and Bathsheba show. Such women are known from other ANE kingdoms as well, such as the Kingdom of the Hittites before 1200 BC, Assyria, and Babylon.
Israel may have acquired aspects of the theologies of those other gods as a result of royal marriage alliances such as those of Solomon and Ahab - the kings of Judah seem to have been less eager to marry non-Jewish princesses, presumably in order to avoid the attendant religio-political complications.Last edited by Rushing Jaws; 01-06-2020, 05:30 PM.
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