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Ethical naivete?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    He/They may think Christian's are full of it. But I wonder how he/they got that idea? Could it be related to being mocked and laughed at by Christian's that claim they represent the love, grace, and mercy of Jesus Christ?

    And your claim not to have disdain for them is contradicted by nearly every post you make to them. So if you dont disdain them, you might want to inform whatever it is that does your typing
    And, just to add, he started focusing on other topics than the topics discussed in this context when you made the claim that we stand for the things Christ taught us.

    I have seen very, very many who call themselves Christians defend evil time and time again on this forum. Calling the pointing to the evil melodrama, "justifying" evil with whataboutism, finding all sorts of weird excuses or - as CP did in this case - change focus, going for personal attacks or whatever. This has not made me change my mind on what Christianity is, what Jesus taught, and I have not lost respect for those who honestly believe his word.

    I have zero respect for those who justify evil that goes against the teachings of Jesus and even do so by relying on the most obvious fallacies. They cannot even show basic human decency and then go on to pretend to be justified to teach us a higher truth. They are even worse than those who at least are not even trying to pretend they are fighting for a good cause. Civics101 is a terrible, terrible, terrible testimony to what Christianity is. There are few Christians who fight for good causes but a shocking number who are moving further and further away from basic decency in what they support and what they write.
    "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Chuckles View Post
      And, just to add, he started focusing on other topics than the topics discussed in this context when you made the claim that we stand for the things Christ taught us.

      I have seen very, very many who call themselves Christians defend evil time and time again on this forum. Calling the pointing to the evil melodrama, "justifying" evil with whataboutism, finding all sorts of weird excuses or - as CP did in this case - change focus, going for personal attacks or whatever. This has not made me change my mind on what Christianity is, what Jesus taught, and I have not lost respect for those who honestly believe his word.

      I have zero respect for those who justify evil that goes against the teachings of Jesus and even do so by relying on the most obvious fallacies. They cannot even show basic human decency and then go on to pretend to be justified to teach us a higher truth. They are even worse than those who at least are not even trying to pretend they are fighting for a good cause. Civics101 is a terrible, terrible, terrible testimony to what Christianity is. There are few Christians who fight for good causes but a shocking number who are moving further and further away from basic decency in what they support and what they write.
      Right... and if only Jesus had tried to get along with the pharisees, maybe they wouldn't have crucified him.

      Since you're apparently so enamored with the teachings of Christ, maybe you'll take the following to heart:
      "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

      "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

      "I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die."

      "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

      "‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment."

      "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake and the gospel’s will save it. For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and forfeit his soul? For what can a man give in return for his soul? For whoever is ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him will the Son of Man also be ashamed when he comes in the glory of his Father with the holy angels."

      But really, you only care about the teachings of Christ in so far as you think they can give you the upper hand in a debate. Your post reminds me of the meme, "Jesus once said something I happen to agree with. Of course I have nothing but contempt for your ignorant and backwards beliefs, but I know you're a Christian, so I'm hoping if I quote your Bible to you that I'll be able to manipulate you into agreeing with my political opinions."

      Tell me, Chuck, when was the last time you asked an honest, well-meaning question about Christianity and were genuinely interested in the answer? Your siren song might lead people like oxmixmudd to incautiously smash his ship against the rocks, but others of us are not so naive.
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        Right... and if only Jesus had tried to get along with the pharisees, maybe they wouldn't have crucified him.
        This is out of context so I have no idea why you wanted to deal with made up stuff instead of what I actually wrote.

        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        Since you're apparently so enamored with the teachings of Christ, maybe you'll take the following to heart:
        I have never said I was enamored so you rely on a misrepresentation of what I said. Feel free to try with the truth next time and there is a chance it would work better for you.

        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        But really, you only care about the teachings of Christ in so far as you think they can give you the upper hand in a debate.
        That is a claim you make without any support. It is also completely false. Once again, you might want to try wtih the truth next time.

        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        Your post reminds me of the meme, "Jesus once said something I happen to agree with. Of course I have nothing but contempt for your ignorant and backwards beliefs, but I know you're a Christian, so I'm hoping if I quote your Bible to you that I'll be able to manipulate you into agreeing with my political opinions."
        This is so loaded that it very telling in itself. The use of the word "manipulate" has as a precondition that I do not mean what I am saying. Again this a statement you can make but it is not true, and if there is a God he will know that it is not true. I have repeatedly pointed to how many of you who like to describe yourself as Christians time and time again support evil treatment of innocent children, of talking that is hurtfull and percieved as racist. In this post care for innocent children has been described as "melodrama", "talking points" and whatever.

        You are never going to convince me you actually both believe that it is fair to cheat them in this way and that an actual existing Jesus who will hold you accountable for your treatment of them identified with them. You are never going to convince me you believe in what Jesus actually claimed about the value of human life, the individual human being, if you support inhuman talk and treatment. And if you try to justify it all with "political opinion", go ahead. I am not going to follow along and the number of wrong claims you have made in your rather short post is only one of the reasons why.

        And with regard to picking only what you like... Where were all the quotes about giving to the poor, that Jesus identified with the weak and the poor? All his rage about those who thought they were the good ones, the right believers? Didn't see much of that. Such a shame to leave all of that out when you want to claim that I only pick what is convenient for me...

        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        Tell me, Chuck, when was the last time you asked an honest, well-meaning question about Christianity and were genuinely interested in the answer? Your siren song might lead people like oxmixmudd to incautiously smash his ship against the rocks, but others of us are not so naive.
        Again one notes the loaded language, the name calling (good Christian ethics?) and the insinuation it never happened. Having such a biased foundation for "asking questions" while suggesting others are naive seems really, really odd to me.

        What I can say with regard to the "question" (if we can really call it a question) is that I do read the Bible and have done so several times. The more I read it, the less I feel that your post or the posts of many others in here reflect anything Jesus actually said or told us to do. There is an attititude in here in many cases that I find opposite to what he taught. I also study Christian philosophy and find manny challenging and interesting thoughts in that proces. I have the honesty to say I find some of it interesting, challenging and strong while I am not a believer.
        Last edited by Charles; 01-05-2020, 11:33 AM.
        "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

        Comment


        • #34
          Sorry, Chuck, but I don't believe for a moment that I'm wrong about you, and your protestations only serve to further convince me that you're nothing but a bald faced hypocrite. You pick the teachings of Jesus that you like or think are useful ammunition in a debate, and reject anything that calls on you to repent and commit yourself to the service of God Almighty.
          Last edited by Mountain Man; 01-05-2020, 01:08 PM.
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            Sorry, Chuck, but I don't believe for a moment that I'm wrong about you, and your protestations only serve to further convince me that you're nothing but a bald faced hypocrite. You pick the teachings of Jesus that you like or think are useful ammunition in a debate, and reject anything that calls on you to repent and commit yourself to the service of God Almighty.
            So you support false statements with even more false statements and personal attacks. And you expects us to believe you are really concerned with the truth and that you would be able to rationally support your position when so far you have demonstrably relied on selected quotes to fit your agenda, loaded language, false statements and bias?

            This is not a criticism of Christianity. It is, however, my reason for being very reluctant in bying into the idea that what you and some others provide has much to do with Christianity. It fails to be basically human and honest and that is a bad start. The fallacies, the personal attacks and the biased approach is way too obvious. Like I said: you might want to start with the truth next time.
            "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Charles View Post
              And, just to add, he started focusing on other topics than the topics discussed in this context when you made the claim that we stand for the things Christ taught us.

              I have seen very, very many who call themselves Christians defend evil time and time again on this forum. Calling the pointing to the evil melodrama, "justifying" evil with whataboutism, finding all sorts of weird excuses or - as CP did in this case - change focus, going for personal attacks or whatever. This has not made me change my mind on what Christianity is, what Jesus taught, and I have not lost respect for those who honestly believe his word.

              I have zero respect for those who justify evil that goes against the teachings of Jesus and even do so by relying on the most obvious fallacies. They cannot even show basic human decency and then go on to pretend to be justified to teach us a higher truth. They are even worse than those who at least are not even trying to pretend they are fighting for a good cause. Civics101 is a terrible, terrible, terrible testimony to what Christianity is. There are few Christians who fight for good causes but a shocking number who are moving further and further away from basic decency in what they support and what they write.
              These people aren't Christians

              They're just conservatives that hate gay people, liberals, and a whole litany of other people. Their religion is simply a weapon used inconsistently in defense of their political aims.

              Theres no charity in their hearts and the ones who play up being cops or ministers or whatever are among the worst because you know they've had direct experiences, you know they know certain things, and yet, when it comes to it, they'll never follow their convictions to the logical endpoint because their convictions are subservient to their group identity.

              Meh

              Comment


              • #37
                I just love it when people who despise Christian beliefs take it upon themselves to self-righteously lecture us about Christian beliefs.
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  I just love it when people who despise Christian beliefs take it upon themselves to self-righteously lecture us about Christian beliefs.
                  It seems there is no ending to the false statements you are willing to make. I do not despise Christian beliefs. Your claim about "self-righteously lecture" is a personal attack. I have adviced you several times now to try with the truth. Why is that so difficult for you?
                  "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Charles View Post
                    And, just to add, he started focusing ...
                    You were the class snitch, weren't you?
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Charles View Post
                      I have zero respect for those who justify evil that goes against the teachings of Jesus and even do so by relying on the most obvious fallacies.....
                      I have zero respect for lying little snitches who keep insinuating that I'm defending Trump or his actions, when I have very CLEARLY spoken against him, but the fact that I don't hate him as much as you are obsessed, and constantly attack him....

                      You people really are sick.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        You were the class snitch, weren't you?
                        I was pointing out what was obviously the case as can be seen in this very thread. Feel free to get back on topic.
                        "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Charles View Post
                          I was pointing out what was obviously the case as can be seen in this very thread. Feel free to get back on topic.
                          Sure Charles. You're a real prince.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Charles View Post
                            I do not despise Christian beliefs.
                            Of course you do. Do you accept Jesus' call to repentance and a life in total devotion to God? Do you believe that Jesus was God in the flesh who came to die for our sins and who resurrected so that we can share in his victory over death? Do you believe that those who accept God's forgiveness will live for eternity in heaven? When you discuss these topics with Christians, do you give them the benefit of the doubt that they could be right and treat their beliefs with due respect, asking questions with an open mind and a genuine desire to be convinced?

                            If there's that side to you, then I've never seen it, and you've apparently gone to great lengths to keep it hidden on this forum, preferring, instead, to snipe from the sidelines and attempt to pit Christian against Christian. Unfortunately, you seem to have drawn oxmixmudd into your net, so congratulations, I guess.

                            Oh, and before you try to split hairs and say that you respect the Christian worldview even though you reject as false, understand that the Bible leaves you no middle ground. You're either saved, or you're condemned. You're either for God, or you're against him. There are literally no other options.
                            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                            Than a fool in the eyes of God


                            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              Of course you do. Do you accept Jesus' call to repentance and a life in total devotion to God? Do you believe that Jesus was God in the flesh who came to die for our sins and who resurrected so that we can share in his victory over death? Do you believe that those who accept God's forgiveness will live for eternity in heaven? When you discuss these topics with Christians, do you give them the benefit of the doubt that they could be right and treat their beliefs with due respect, asking questions with an open mind and a genuine desire to be convinced?

                              If there's that side to you, then I've never seen it, and you've apparently gone to great lengths to keep it hidden on this forum, preferring, instead, to snipe from the sidelines and attempt to pit Christian against Christian. Unfortunately, you seem to have drawn oxmixmudd into your net, so congratulations, I guess.

                              Oh, and before you try to split hairs and say that you respect the Christian worldview even though you reject as false, understand that the Bible leaves you no middle ground. You're either saved, or you're condemned. You're either for God, or you're against him. There are literally no other options.
                              Once again a lot of false statements about what I think. Seems you have no problem going with false claims as you have repeatedly done in this thread. It is below the level where you can start to try to teach others any truth if you are initially dependent on lies yourself.
                              "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Charles View Post
                                Once again a lot of false statements about what I think. Seems you have no problem going with false claims as you have repeatedly done in this thread. It is below the level where you can start to try to teach others any truth if you are initially dependent on lies yourself.
                                Charles,

                                Perhaps if you would spend more time stating your beliefs, or engaging in one-one-one discussions, instead of trying to referee discussions between third parties, it wouldn't be so easy to come to wrong conclusions about what you believe.

                                Just a thought.
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

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