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Ethical naivete?

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Charles View Post
    I think the above is what could be described as loaded words along with your original statement about "melodrama".
    Seriously? The "I'm rubber. you're glue" defense?


    The child bearing the consequences described by some as terror is still completely innocent.
    As are ALL children that are separated from their parents by incarceration.

    And I don't assume the law makes sure there should be no plan for reunification? You might go for higher moral standards than what follows from the law, you may work to change the law. The assumption you can blindly follow the law and then will not be to blame is naive and absurd and even a limited understanding of history shows why this is a path we should not follow.
    So what is the higher moral standard? Teach people to break the law? Disrespect things they are legally not entitled to? Work to change the law if it is not as high a moral standard as it can be, but do not act like enforcing it is immoral.



    This is a very, very telling about your approach. You talk about dehumanizing talks as something that might "hurt feelings". That is a naive understanding. As history clearly shows, dehumanizing language might very well lead to actual consequences for real people. To think this is about "feelings" is to close your eyes to reality.
    Might, may, etc. Again, his PERSONAL failings are FAR outweighed by his moral policies that affect millions more. this is in no way excusing his personal flaws. It is, however, a stark realization that there is a greater good

    And another point. It seems you are willing to sell out on certain areas due to economical gains on others. If money is in another moral league than respecting the basic value of human life you are selling what is basically invaluable for money. If you put a price on dignity you have already lost it.
    Being able to feed your family FAR outweighs someone calling you a name. If you can't see that, then you haven't a clue what morality is. True dignity involves self-sufficiency and self-reliance. No one can grant you dignity. It comes from within.


    See above. Same error all the way through. A complete sellout of the value of human life. Even the truth is something you are willing to sell for something you seem to percieve as more valuable.
    The value of a human life has nothing to do with what you get called.



    It is not about the impact of Trump's decisions but about the impact of those who try to justify what cannot be justified. Your "greater good" is obviously not truth, decency and the equal value of all human life.
    Yes it most certainly is. Moral decisions that improve the lives of millions far outweigh the personal reception of words.



    The point you respond to is not about individual desire. Based on your willingness to accept dehumanizing talk and action and your disregard for truth in search for a "greater good" I see no reason why you talk about the "moral high ground". You have just provided the opposite.
    You are wrong. "Dehumanizing talk" is akin to a paper tiger. Actual actions that make a tangible positive impact are where morality lives. No one can make you feel inferior unless you allow them to. The greater good is always the moral choice, and always the truth. Seeking it is good, and just, and right.
    That's what
    - She

    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
    - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
    - Stephen R. Donaldson

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Charles View Post
      I respect the qoutes in your post and have known those statements for as long as I can remember.
      Right... you "respect" them but ultimately reject them as false, showing that you don't respect them at all. Tell me, do you respect that Jesus is the truth, and that everything he said is true, including his claims to be God incarnate, and that if you believe in his death and resurrection, that your sins will be forgiven, and that you will spend eternity in heaven? Of course you don't, or you wouldn't be an agnostic. You try to straddle the line, thinking your agnosticism gives you moral superiority, but to you Jesus says:

      "I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth."
      Last edited by Mountain Man; 01-07-2020, 11:11 AM.
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        Right... you "respect" them but ultimately reject them as false, showing that you don't respect them at all. Tell me, do you respect that Jesus is the truth, and that everything he said is true, including his claims to be God incarnate, and that if you believe in his death and resurrection, that your sins will be forgiven, and that you will spend eternity in heaven? Of course you don't, or you wouldn't be an agnostic. You try to straddle the line, thinking your agnosticism gives you moral superiority, but to you Jesus says:

        "I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth."
        Old attempts I have already shown to be absurd. And even more false statements and selective quoting. Seems you have absolutely no problem with what is false and selective. It rather seems you simply cannot avoid it and thus continue to rely on it instead of truth.
        "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Timothy View Post
          Maybe, just maybe, try not calling people "loonies of the left". Then see if people respect you more. No high horse here.
          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          Just curious to see if you can back up this notion that I call "people who weren't able to support Clinton OR Trump" as "loonies of the left". And would I know who these people are?

          Just one example, please.
          Timothy -- I believe you made a false accusation and

          A) I'm asking you to either back it up or man up and apologize.
          2) Keep your self-righteous judgmental little snitballs out of my inbox.

          Thanks
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            Timothy -- I believe you made a false accusation and

            A) I'm asking you to either back it up or man up and apologize.
            2) Keep your self-righteous judgmental little snitballs out of my inbox.

            Thanks
            I'm one of those who supported neither Clinton nor Trump, and AFAIK you've never called me a loonie, or anything else.

            ...Right?
            I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
              I'm one of those who supported neither Clinton nor Trump, and AFAIK you've never called me a loonie, or anything else.

              ...Right?
              OK, Bucko.... about that.....


              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
                I'm one of those who supported neither Clinton nor Trump, and AFAIK you've never called me a loonie, or anything else.

                ...Right?
                But, seriously.....

                A) I'd have to KNOW somebody supported neither Clinton nor Trump
                2) I would have ZERO reason to think they were loony based on that.

                Now, it's possible that there is somebody out there who I surmised was loony, but certainly not because of how they voted or not.

                Some people are loony left just because they're loon left.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  Timothy -- I believe you made a false accusation and

                  A) I'm asking you to either back it up or man up and apologize.
                  2) Keep your self-righteous judgmental little snitballs out of my inbox.

                  Thanks
                  You are claiming that you never called anyone a lunatic. Nice try. Look back at the post I first replied to. If you think that saying "you shouldn't call people lunatics" is far too high a bar for Christians, that is just proof of how far the American Church has fallen under Donald Trump's leadership.

                  Aren't you supposed to be a pastor or something? You should be ashamed of yourself. Do you think Jesus approves of you calling people lunatics? What ever you do to the least of my brethren, you do also to me. Have you ever heard Jesus say something like that?

                  You need to get off YOUR high horse.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Timothy View Post
                    You are claiming that you never called anyone a lunatic.
                    Try again - because that's not at all what I said.

                    I'm just going to chalk it up to your immaturity and self-righteousness and give you a pass on this one.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      ...according to the loonies on the left, I'm a "Trumpster".
                      It must have been some OTHER Cow Poke who is calling people loonies.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Nah, cow poke insults people all the time and then when called on it demands receipts, but if you provide them he'll just blow you off. Not worth it

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Timothy View Post
                          It must have been some OTHER Cow Poke who is calling people loonies.
                          You’ve really backed off from your initial false accusation - I guess that’s your way of not apologizing when you’re wrong but trying to save face.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            That bolded part --- I don't think BG was ever "enamored of Trump's actions and ethics" - I think that's an unfair view of BG's support for Trump. I would think BG saw Trump's usefulness in SPITE of his "actions and ethics".
                            ”Usefulness” ? That sounds like consequentialism, rather than Christian morality.

                            Consequentialism: “This person has many glaring & notorious faults, but we can prudently calculate that, if he elected, he will produce some right/good results”.

                            Christian ethics: “This person is, whatever his faults, mostly of good character, so we can prudently judge that, if elected, he will produce some right/good results”.

                            Consequentialism fits comfortably with Pragmatism, which in some form seems to be the US philosophy par excellence.
                            Last edited by Rushing Jaws; 01-07-2020, 05:59 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Rushing Jaws View Post
                              ”Usefulness” ? That sounds like consequentialism, rather than Christian morality.

                              Consequentialism: “This person has many glaring & notorious faults, but we can prudently calculate that, if he elected, he will produce some right/good results”.

                              Christian ethics: “This person is, whatever his faults, mostly of good character, so we can prudently judge that, if elected, he will produce some right/good results”.

                              Consequentialism fits comfortably with Pragmatism, which in some form seems to be the US philosophy par excellence.
                              I wonder if any of the Trump-voters here had Bad Orange Man as their top choice during the primaries. AFAIK, only one person among my RL Christian friends did (and she was very gung-ho). My top choices were Lyin' Ted and Carly "Look at that Face!" Fiorina. In the general election, it was literally a last-moment prayerful decision in the voting booth as to whether I would vote for Trump or no one.

                              I have had no regrets about voting for Trump, and I will have no qualms about voting for him again this year. I have been more pleased with his results than with previous results of voting based on so-called "Christian ethics."
                              Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                              Beige Federalist.

                              Nationalist Christian.

                              "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                              Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                              Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                              Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                              Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                              Justice for Matthew Perna!

                              Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                                I wonder if any of the Trump-voters here had Bad Orange Man as their top choice during the primaries. AFAIK, only one person among my RL Christian friends did (and she was very gung-ho). My top choices were Lyin' Ted and Carly "Look at that Face!" Fiorina. In the general election, it was literally a last-moment prayerful decision in the voting booth as to whether I would vote for Trump or no one.

                                I have had no regrets about voting for Trump, and I will have no qualms about voting for him again this year. I have been more pleased with his results than with previous results of voting based on so-called "Christian ethics."
                                I was hoping for Rand Paul early on, but by the time the primaries reached my state, Trump was pretty much the only viable choice.
                                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                                Comment

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