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Thread: Divided Methodists

  1. #21
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Which denomination is splitting up over evolution?
    Incomplete representation of my post. The break up is over the more fundamentalist beliefs and more liberal non-literal beliefs. Homosexuality, abortion, birth control, and the belief in a literal interpretation of the Bible opposed to evolution are some of the issues involved in the growing schisms.

    The Lutheran Churches are divided over the literal interpretation of the Bible and evolution.

    LCMS Lutheran Churches:
    Source: https://christiannews.net/2019/07/30/lutheran-church-missouri-synod-approves-resolution-reaffirming-belief-in-literal-six-day-creation/



    Lutheran Church Missouri Synod Approves Resolution Reaffirming Belief in Literal Six-Day Creation

    TAMPA, Fla. — During the recent Convention of The Lutheran Church — Missouri Synod (LCMS), delegates approved a resolution reaffirming the synod’s belief in a literal interpretation of the book of Genesis, including that God created the heavens and earth in six days.

    The text of Resolution 5-09A reflects positions outlined in existing documents, such as its 1973 Statement of Scriptural and Confessional Principles, which declares, “We teach that God has created heaven and earth, and that in the manner and in the space of time recorded in the Holy Scriptures, especially Genesis 1 and 2, namely by His almighty creative word, and in six days.”

    “We reject every doctrine which denies or limits the work of creation as taught in Scripture. In our days, it is denied or limited by those who assert, ostensibly in deference to science, that the world came into existence through a process of evolution,” it continues. “Since no man was present when it pleased God to create the world, we must look for a reliable account of creation to God’s own record, found in God’s own book, the Bible.”

    Pastors and other church workers are encouraged to confess and uphold the position in their teaching.

    © Copyright Original Source



    Evangelical Lutheran Church of America is very liberal and has no problem with evolution.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  2. #22
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    Incomplete representation of my post. The break up is over the more fundamentalist beliefs and more liberal non-literal beliefs. Homosexuality, abortion, birth control, and the belief in a literal interpretation of the Bible opposed to evolution are some of the issues involved in the growing schisms.

    The Lutheran Churches are divided over the literal interpretation of the Bible and evolution.

    LCMS Lutheran Churches:
    Source: https://christiannews.net/2019/07/30/lutheran-church-missouri-synod-approves-resolution-reaffirming-belief-in-literal-six-day-creation/



    Lutheran Church Missouri Synod Approves Resolution Reaffirming Belief in Literal Six-Day Creation

    TAMPA, Fla. — During the recent Convention of The Lutheran Church — Missouri Synod (LCMS), delegates approved a resolution reaffirming the synod’s belief in a literal interpretation of the book of Genesis, including that God created the heavens and earth in six days.

    The text of Resolution 5-09A reflects positions outlined in existing documents, such as its 1973 Statement of Scriptural and Confessional Principles, which declares, “We teach that God has created heaven and earth, and that in the manner and in the space of time recorded in the Holy Scriptures, especially Genesis 1 and 2, namely by His almighty creative word, and in six days.”

    “We reject every doctrine which denies or limits the work of creation as taught in Scripture. In our days, it is denied or limited by those who assert, ostensibly in deference to science, that the world came into existence through a process of evolution,” it continues. “Since no man was present when it pleased God to create the world, we must look for a reliable account of creation to God’s own record, found in God’s own book, the Bible.”

    Pastors and other church workers are encouraged to confess and uphold the position in their teaching.

    © Copyright Original Source



    Evangelical Lutheran Church of America is very liberal and has no problem with evolution.
    IOW, no denominations are splitting up over evolution as you had claimed.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
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  3. Amen Terraceth, Teallaura amen'd this post.
  4. #23
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    IOW, no denominations are splitting up over evolution as you had claimed.
    Yeah, Shuny is in his own little world. But, hey, the people there all know him.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  5. #24
    radical strawberry
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    IOW, no denominations are splitting up over evolution as you had claimed.
    That'd be a lot more compelling if it was what he claimed, and it wasn't in direct response to his denial.

    ... splitting up over homosexuality and other issues like the science of evolution centering on the literal fundamentalist view of the Bible versu the adaptive interpretive view of liberal churches

    followed by

    Incomplete representation of my post.

    and a reiteration of the list you didn't read the first time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Yeah, Shuny is in his own little world. But, hey, the people there all know him.
    And we know you, goober. Try reading what he actually said before you dogpile, preacher. It'll improve your looks. Unless you like looking yellow. That said, I dare ya, no, I double dare ya to step up to the mic next Sunday and declare you accept the theory of evolution, because the evidence that it's true is beyond compelling, and all truth is God's truth.

    Then come on back and tell us how that worked out for ya, how it wasn't a divisive topic after all.

  6. Amen oxmixmudd amen'd this post.
  7. #25
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    IOW, no denominations are splitting up over evolution as you had claimed.
    You are still misrepresenting my posts as usual. The separation is over the issue of the literal interpretation of the scriptures, which includes the interpretation of genesis, and the literal interpretation concerning the LGBT community. It is a fact as cited that the Lutherans are divided over the literal interpretation of scriptures and the Missouri Senate Lutherans have drawn the line in the sand and rejected evolution based on this and the other Lutheran Churches have not.


    Actually the United Methodist Church has been divided by deacto for a long time over the conservative literal interpretation of scriptures. The barrier is the ownership of the churches involved. In the United Methodist Church the individual churches do not own their property. As in my region of the North Carolina. The urban United Methodist Churches are mostly liberal, and the rural Methodist Churches are conservative and believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible, and ny defacto they are separate. This is actually true of many denominations in my experience.
    Last edited by shunyadragon; 01-05-2020 at 06:13 PM.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  8. #26
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    You are still misrepresenting my posts as usual. The separation is over the issue of the literal interpretation of the scriptures, which includes the interpretation of genesis, and the literal interpretation concerning the LGBT community. It is a fact as cited that the Lutherans are divided over the literal interpretation of scriptures and the Missouri Senate Lutherans have drawn the line in the sand and rejected evolution based on this and the other Lutheran Churches have not.
    If your argument is that the split is due to how "literally" they take the Bible, with evolution being an example of such, that is not unreasonable--but rather than simply say that in response to rogue's post ("I wasn't saying they were breaking up because of evolution, but because of the differing theological underpinnings that lead to separate opinions on things like evolution"), you confusingly chose to double down on the statement by citing differences in evolution understanding between the LCMS and ELCA. The problem is that the ELCA didn't split from the LCMS--the ELCA was a merger of three different Lutheran groups. Now, to be fair, one of those groups did split from the LCMS, but that still seems like a stretch because that merged into the ELCA rather than being the ELCA. Even if one insists it does "count," I do not know if evolution was an actual factor--but perhaps more importantly this happened back in 1976 rather than in the present as your post suggested.

    It's sort of like comparing the Anglican and Catholic positions on same-sex marriage and saying it's an example of denominations splitting up over it. They might differ in that in the present, but their actual splitting occurred for totally different reasons.

  9. Amen MaxVel, Teallaura amen'd this post.
  10. #27
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juvenal View Post
    And we know you, goober.
    A) Who's "we", Juvie?
    2) Do you honestly believe anybody here takes you seriously.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  11. #28
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terraceth View Post
    If your argument is that the split is due to how "literally" they take the Bible, with evolution being an example of such, that is not unreasonable--but rather than simply say that in response to rogue's post ("I wasn't saying they were breaking up because of evolution, but because of the differing theological underpinnings that lead to separate opinions on things like evolution"), you confusingly chose to double down on the statement by citing differences in evolution understanding between the LCMS and ELCA. The problem is that the ELCA didn't split from the LCMS--the ELCA was a merger of three different Lutheran groups. Now, to be fair, one of those groups did split from the LCMS, but that still seems like a stretch because that merged into the ELCA rather than being the ELCA. Even if one insists it does "count," I do not know if evolution was an actual factor--but perhaps more importantly this happened back in 1976 rather than in the present as your post suggested.

    It's sort of like comparing the Anglican and Catholic positions on same-sex marriage and saying it's an example of denominations splitting up over it. They might differ in that in the present, but their actual splitting occurred for totally different reasons.
    I never claimed that evolution was the 'only' issue. That is rogue06's biased imagination. More importantly the release I referred to is the Resolution reafirming the belief in the Six Day Creation and specifically the rejection of evolution in 2019.

    It is important to note that the original Lutheran Church Doctrines and Dogmas accepted only a scripture literally inspired by the Holy Ghost. Over the years the LCMS reaffirmed the original beliefs of the Lutheran Church repeatedly, others did not. The LCMS would not accept other Churches that did not hold to the original beliefs of the Lutheran Church, therefore the schism is reinforced based on this difference in belief..
    Last edited by shunyadragon; 01-05-2020 at 08:35 PM.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  12. #29
    tWebber
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    Its not so simple, on the one hand no denominations have split over the specific issue of evolution, on the other hand, many take literal interpretation and a Young earth to be a test of orthodoxy and a line between Christian and non Christian.

    A while back there was an exchange between two Christian elites, Ken Ham and Norm Geisler. Geisler contended that a literal six day creation and a Young earth was not a test of orthodoxy, Ham contends that the truths of the Bible unravel if one takes Geisler's, old earth view. No six day creation, no resurrection (oversimplified, but it boils down to that).

  13. Amen oxmixmudd amen'd this post.
  14. #30
    radical strawberry
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    A) Who's "we", Juvie?
    2) Do you honestly believe anybody here takes you seriously.
    Go ahead, prove you're too much of a coward to admit you were wrong, goober.

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