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Divided Methodists

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  • Divided Methodists

    United Methodist Church is expected to split over gay marriage, fracturing the nation’s third-largest denomination
    Church leaders said Friday they had agreed to spin off a “traditionalist Methodist" denomination, while allowing the remaining portion of the United Methodist Church to permit same-sex marriage and LGBT clergy for the first time in its history.

    By Julie Zauzmer
    Jan. 3, 2020 at 11:02 a.m. EST
    The United Methodist Church is expected to split into more than one denomination in an attempt to bring to a close a years-long and contentious fight over same-sex marriage.

    The historic schism would divide the third-largest religious denomination in the United States.

    Civics, because it seems more political than religious. YMMV.

    So the non-LGBT affirming splitters will be the Trads, while the dividers will still be called United. "Splitters," because congregations will have to vote to split, else become affirming by default. At 3.6 percent, (compare to the SBC's 5.3 percent), pre-split, they're the largest mainline denomination, and will become the last of the mainliners to support same-sex marriage.
    After the separation, the agreement said, the remaining United Methodist Church would hold another conference with the purpose of removing the church’s bans on same-sex marriage and LGBT clergy.

    Previously, adding leverage to the split, draconian sanctions were set to go into effect for clergy performing these post-Obergefell-now-legal marriages, starting with a one-year-without-pay suspension for a first offense, and dismemberment for additional rites.

    And with that, the floor is open for cheers and jeers.

  • #2
    I don't get why the inevitable was delayed for so long.
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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    • #3
      Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
      I don't get why the inevitable was delayed for so long.
      There was a committee involved.

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      • #4
        John Wesley is turning over in his grave...
        That's what
        - She

        Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
        - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

        I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
        - Stephen R. Donaldson

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        • #5
          It's about time.


          Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

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          • #6
            I wouldn't be surprised if some of the progressive mainline denominations end up consolidating at some point; they almost seem redundant, and they're generally hemorrhaging members. How many of the liberal split here are actual students of Wesley's theology? How many in the PCUSA are actually committed Calvinists?
            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

            Comment


            • #7
              This has caused a stir in my area, and one of the reasons it's been delayed is because of the fact that local congregations do not own their church property.

              In the past, if a congregation wanted to withdraw from (split off) the denomination, they would have to surrender their property and buildings.

              From my understanding, a recent compromise allows "splitting" churches to retain their properties.

              Our local congregation is particularly troubled over this, because they have a female pastor who most sympathetic to the GLBT agenda, but it appears the majority of the congregation is not.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                I don't get why the inevitable was delayed for so long.
                Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                It's about time.
                Y'all have obviously been following this more carefully than myself. I hadn't realized the mainline denominations still had a hold-out, let alone that that holdout was their largest member. Says here they're likely to lose all of their African congregations, which makes me wonder if that was why they'd held out so long, and why they'd approved sanctions to begin with.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
                  Y'all have obviously been following this more carefully than myself. I hadn't realized the mainline denominations still had a hold-out, let alone that that holdout was their largest member. Says here they're likely to lose all of their African congregations, which makes me wonder if that was why they'd held out so long, and why they'd approved sanctions to begin with.
                  The Lutherans have already been through this, and I think, as the dust settled, maybe the Methodists decided it was time for them, too. It's been going on for several years.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
                    Y'all have obviously been following this more carefully than myself. I hadn't realized the mainline denominations still had a hold-out, let alone that that holdout was their largest member. Says here they're likely to lose all of their African congregations, which makes me wonder if that was why they'd held out so long, and why they'd approved sanctions to begin with.
                    In addition to the African contingent, the UMC still has quite a few conservative congregations in the South (Wesley was, after all, a country preacher), which are functionally fairly independent but who do nonetheless send delegates. The tension was clearly not going to be relieved at any point in the forseeable future so a divorce seemed pretty inevitable. Since I've spent time in Methodist circles, that's really the only such denomination I can speak of in this case.
                    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I'm sure Teallaura will give us her perspective from the inside once she sees this. My family attended a UMC church in the early-mid 70's, but I haven't had any contact with the denomination since.
                      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

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                      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        This has caused a stir in my area, and one of the reasons it's been delayed is because of the fact that local congregations do not own their church property.

                        In the past, if a congregation wanted to withdraw from (split off) the denomination, they would have to surrender their property and buildings.

                        From my understanding, a recent compromise allows "splitting" churches to retain their properties.

                        Our local congregation is particularly troubled over this, because they have a female pastor who most sympathetic to the GLBT agenda, but it appears the majority of the congregation is not.
                        FWIU that has been a major point of contention

                        I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          FWIU that has been a major point of contention
                          Yes, locally, that was the big issue with the biggest Methodist Congregation here -- it will be interesting to see what happens, because the congregation appears to want to split, but the Pastor -- she has sympathies for the LBGT cause.

                          The Methodists have there every-to-years shuffle, so she may be shipped off somewhere, and a new less radical pastor brought in.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                            I'm sure Teallaura will give us her perspective from the inside once she sees this. My family attended a UMC church in the early-mid 70's, but I haven't had any contact with the denomination since.
                            When I was tiny, 2nd-gradish, I remember being in their cub scout troop. There was something about a minister never mentioning God during a death watch for my grandmother, and then there was Faith United Pres. which dropped denominational labels and went on to become one of the first mega-churches in the Denver area. There was some discussion about who owned our building when we split, but it was resolved without too much trouble.

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                            • #15
                              I wonder if this will split along the lines of how the Methodists and United Brethren joined? Probably too mixed at this point, but I know at least one Methodist church that left when United Brethren joined because they saw them as too liberal.

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