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Thread: Ohmar, Lee, Kaine, announce war powers resolution to prevent war with Iran

  1. #71
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    So hard to tell if that's satire, or real news.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  2. #72
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawful...ant#Definition

    (2) LAWFUL ENEMY COMBATANT.—The term 'lawful enemy combatant' means a person who is—
    (A) a member of the regular forces of a State party engaged in hostilities against the United States;
    (B) a member of a militia, volunteer corps, or organized resistance movement belonging to a State party engaged in such hostilities, which are under responsible command, wear a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance, carry their arms openly, and abide by the law of war; or
    (C) a member of a regular armed force who professes allegiance to a government engaged in such hostilities, but not recognized by the United States
    It's not about whether he was a lawful combatant or not, it's about whether it was in the best Interests of the U.S. to target Soleimani for assassination. As CP recognised it is going to ratchet up the hostilities, turn the Iranian people against the U.S. and put American citizens and the military at higher risk. Everyone agrees Soleimani deserved what he got, but was it the strategically wise thing to do, and who in the long run actually benefits from the assassination? The Iranian government certainly does, the Russians are sure to be happy about it, the anti-Americans in Iraq also seem to have benefitted. The U.S., well, we rid the Iranians of their top general. But is assassinating one man worth putting Americans at risk or getting ourselves into another long, unnecessary and expensive war? This all stems from Trumps backing out of the nuclear agreement with Iran simply because of his narcisistic need to destroy the Obama legacy.
    Last edited by JimL; 01-07-2020 at 04:30 PM.

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    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimLamebrain View Post
    It's not about whether he was a lawful combatant or not, it's about whether it was in the best Interests of the U.S. to target Soleimani for assassination. As CP recognised it is going to ratchet up the hostilities, turn the Iranian people against the U.S. and put American citizens and the military at higher risk. Everyone agrees Soleimani deserved what he got, but was it the strategically wise thing to do, and who in the long run actually benefits from the assassination? The Iranian government certainly does, the Russians are sure to be happy about it, the anti-Americans in Iraq also seem to have benefitted. The U.S., well, we rid the Iranians of their top general. But is assassinating one man worth putting Americans at risk or getting ourselves into another long, unnecessary and expensive war? This all stems from Trumps backing out of the nuclear agreement with Iran simply because of his narcisistic need to destroy the Obama legacy.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  4. Amen NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  5. #74
    tWebber Rushing Jaws's Avatar
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    Is political assassination a Christian act ?

    If the US can do that sort of thing with an easy conscience, how can it claim to be acting in accord with the Gospels ?

    One suspects that a lot of US preachers are going to be riffling through the OT in order to “prove” that political assassination undertaken by a POTUS is totally commanded by God. And I very much hope that does not happen, for if it does, it will reflect extremely badly on US Evangelicalism.

    It is very troubling that political assassination, when practiced centuries ago, was often embarrassing to those Christians who tolerated or allowed or commanded it - but now, it seems to trouble Christians very little. (Political assassination committed by one’s enemies was, of course, an abomination.)
    It is as though Christians are becoming coarsened, and are prepared to defend or at least tolerate what, in saner moments, they would admit was wicked & indefencible. Christians used to oppose aerial bombing of civilian centres - that scruple is now dead. A Christianity that gives way on issue after another, commits a slow suicide.
    Unless Christians stop acquiescing in wicked acts committed by the authority of the State, why should anyone care what they say on other, more theologically central, issues ?

  6. Amen oxmixmudd, Starlight, JimL amen'd this post.
  7. #75
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rushing Jaws View Post
    Is political assassination a Christian act ?

    If the US can do that sort of thing with an easy conscience, how can it claim to be acting in accord with the Gospels ?

    One suspects that a lot of US preachers are going to be riffling through the OT in order to “prove” that political assassination undertaken by a POTUS is totally commanded by God. And I very much hope that does not happen, for if it does, it will reflect extremely badly on US Evangelicalism.

    It is very troubling that political assassination, when practiced centuries ago, was often embarrassing to those Christians who tolerated or allowed or commanded it - but now, it seems to trouble Christians very little. (Political assassination committed by one’s enemies was, of course, an abomination.)
    It is as though Christians are becoming coarsened, and are prepared to defend or at least tolerate what, in saner moments, they would admit was wicked & indefencible. Christians used to oppose aerial bombing of civilian centres - that scruple is now dead. A Christianity that gives way on issue after another, commits a slow suicide.
    Unless Christians stop acquiescing in wicked acts committed by the authority of the State, why should anyone care what they say on other, more theologically central, issues ?
    Our government doesn’t pretend to be a Christian government. And I’m not thrilled about us being in a Iraq in the first place.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  8. Amen NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  9. #76
    God, family, chicken! Bill the Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rushing Jaws View Post
    Is political assassination a Christian act ?

    If the US can do that sort of thing with an easy conscience, how can it claim to be acting in accord with the Gospels ?

    One suspects that a lot of US preachers are going to be riffling through the OT in order to “prove” that political assassination undertaken by a POTUS is totally commanded by God. And I very much hope that does not happen, for if it does, it will reflect extremely badly on US Evangelicalism.

    It is very troubling that political assassination, when practiced centuries ago, was often embarrassing to those Christians who tolerated or allowed or commanded it - but now, it seems to trouble Christians very little. (Political assassination committed by one’s enemies was, of course, an abomination.)
    It is as though Christians are becoming coarsened, and are prepared to defend or at least tolerate what, in saner moments, they would admit was wicked & indefencible. Christians used to oppose aerial bombing of civilian centres - that scruple is now dead. A Christianity that gives way on issue after another, commits a slow suicide.
    Unless Christians stop acquiescing in wicked acts committed by the authority of the State, why should anyone care what they say on other, more theologically central, issues ?
    Have you read Chronicles and Kings?

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    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    Have you read Chronicles and Kings?
    Or the book of Judges.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  11. #78
    tWebber Rushing Jaws's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    Have you read Chronicles and Kings?
    Indeed. And Judith. And Judges.

    But none of these books are Christian. The Christian’s moral example is meant to be, not Eglon, or Jael, or Judith, or the murderers of Amon, but Christ.

  12. Amen oxmixmudd amen'd this post.
  13. #79
    tWebber NorrinRadd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rushing Jaws View Post
    Is political assassination a Christian act ?

    If the US can do that sort of thing with an easy conscience, how can it claim to be acting in accord with the Gospels ?

    One suspects that a lot of US preachers are going to be riffling through the OT in order to “prove” that political assassination undertaken by a POTUS is totally commanded by God. And I very much hope that does not happen, for if it does, it will reflect extremely badly on US Evangelicalism.

    It is very troubling that political assassination, when practiced centuries ago, was often embarrassing to those Christians who tolerated or allowed or commanded it - but now, it seems to trouble Christians very little. (Political assassination committed by one’s enemies was, of course, an abomination.)
    It is as though Christians are becoming coarsened, and are prepared to defend or at least tolerate what, in saner moments, they would admit was wicked & indefencible. Christians used to oppose aerial bombing of civilian centres - that scruple is now dead. A Christianity that gives way on issue after another, commits a slow suicide.
    Unless Christians stop acquiescing in wicked acts committed by the authority of the State, why should anyone care what they say on other, more theologically central, issues ?
    The U.S. is not a theocracy, Christian or otherwise, for which I thank God.

    I don't care if we, as a nation, act "in accord with the Gospels." If we're going to get into wars, I want our primary goal to be "WIN!!!" I especially don't want us diddling around with endless "proportional responses," which is just another name for "quagmire warfare." In my personal life, I aspire to Matt. 18:21-22. But in warfare, I want our nation to imitate Lamech in Gen. 4:23-24.
    Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

    Beige Nationalist.

    "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

  14. Amen Cow Poke amen'd this post.
  15. #80
    tWebber Starlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    if the "second in command" happens to be in a battle space coordinating attacks, he has relinquished his 'diplomatic immunity.
    I don't necessarily disagree with that: Say there's a battle occurring, and the general is with his forces in battle actively commanding them, okay, he's "in" the battle and if he dies in it, tough biscuits to him.

    In this case the guy was transiting through an international airport on the way to a diplomatic meeting about peace negotiations with the Iraqi Prime Minister. That isn't a battle space.

    A civilian international airport is not a "battle space".

    Travelling to a scheduled meeting with a Prime Minister is not "coordinating attacks".

    He was at the capital, without troops, in person on a diplomatic mission, on a scheduled visiting to see the Prime Minister, and travelling through a civilian airport. He was definitely not, at that point in time, commanding a battle.

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