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Thread: Hate crimes and antisemitic attacks

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    tWebber
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    Hate crimes and antisemitic attacks

    Are they really increasing in numbers?

    What are the underlying, contributing, causes?

    How can it be combatted?

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    It might help to get some sort of source perspective for that. What sort of data brings you to that conclusion?

    And I always cringe at the word "hate crimes" because not only can it be a terribly subjective term (and I don't trust the left's interpretation of it any farther than I can throw them), but it can easily be interpreted as a hate crime if it involves altercations with folks of different races or sexual preferences or whatever when it isn't.
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

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    tWebber
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    I took this from post #735 in "Christianity Today's Op ed" thread, by Divineob. Thought it deserved its separate discussion. Here is one article: https://hds.harvard.edu/news/2019/04...imes-are-rise#

    Yes, the term hate crime is troubling because it can be misused. But I think that it goes to motivation.

    But some crimes have a fairly clear motive, such as swastika graffiti at a synagogue or Jewish cemetery.

    A number of Jewish centers which are hiring armed guards, if they can afford it. I would say that shows a perception of antisemitic hate crime, enough to budget for it.
    Last edited by simplicio; 01-06-2020 at 01:17 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seanD View Post
    It might help to get some sort of source perspective for that. What sort of data brings you to that conclusion?

    And I always cringe at the word "hate crimes" because not only can it be a terribly subjective term (and I don't trust the left's interpretation of it any farther than I can throw them), but it can easily be interpreted as a hate crime if it involves altercations with folks of different races or sexual preferences or whatever when it isn't.
    There has been a significant uptick in anti-semitic attacks in the US and worldwide that has followed the same timeline as the Trump presidency (keeping in mind that correlation does not necessarily imply causation). It has been reported in both conservative (fox) and MSM outlets:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...92f_story.html

    https://www.foxnews.com/world/un-rel...-anti-semitism

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...unity-n1109131

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/...misunderstood/

    Those that tend to attribute it to the Trump presidency would be targeting his tendency to appease white supremacist groups as part of his base which tends to embolden them and his strong anti-immigration leanings which tends to exaggerate us vs them thinking, as opposed to direct anti-semitism on Trump's part. Trump has, in fact, introduced new legislation to make such attacks 'hate crimes', though it has received mixed reviews in the Jewish community because it creates a race class for jews, which led to very bad things in Nazi Germany.

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...college-campus

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/10/polit...ity/index.html
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

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    Good grief, Jim! Do we have to have Trump in every single thread?

    You didn't have to bring him into this discussion! And you said "keeping in mind that correlation does not necessarily imply causation", and then promptly blamed him anyway!



    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by mossrose View Post
    Good grief, Jim! Do we have to have Trump in every single thread?

    You didn't have to bring him into this discussion! And you said "keeping in mind that correlation does not necessarily imply causation", and then promptly blamed him anyway!


    I was just putting out the information as it is being reported.

    1) It is a thing that is happening - there is a real up-tick in antisemitism. That is the first set of links.
    2) There are people that feel the administration is part of it,
    3) The administration has taken steps to try to combat it. That is the second set of links.

    And that is what is in the news about it. Just filling in the details as seanD didn't seem to know about it.

    And - to be fair - the op asks WHY it might be happening ("what are the underlying, contributing factors"). There are many that believe Trump and Trump policies are part of it. So it is fully in context to bring that element into the conversation.
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 01-06-2020 at 08:53 AM.
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    I was just putting out the information as it is being reported.

    1) It is a thing that is happening - there is a real up-tick in antisemitism. That is the first set of links.
    2) There are people that feel the administration is part of it,
    3) The administration has taken steps to try to combat it. That is the second set of links.

    And that is what is in the news about it. Just filling in the details as seanD didn't seem to know about it.

    And - to be fair - the op asks WHY it might be happening ("what are the underlying, contributing factors"). There are many that believe Trump and Trump policies are part of it. So it is fully in context to bring that element into the conversation.
    I can't imagine how anyone could even for second suggest Trump is responsible for this when he's probably the most pro-Israel potus we've had, probably even more than Bush as far as optics and his polices. If there's any sort of political correlation, I'd assume it was attacks from the TDS left taking out their spite of what Trump is doing for Israel on Jews in general. Is there any evidence the provokers of these actions (assuming they're even hate crimes which, like I said, is likely open for debate) were Trump supporters? If not, logic would assume this is the political left lashing out because of Trump's pro-Israel policies
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

  8. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanD View Post
    I can't imagine how anyone could even for second suggest Trump is responsible for this when he's probably the most pro-Israel potus we've had, probably even more than Bush as far as optics and his polices. If there's any sort of political correlation, I'd assume it was attacks from the TDS left taking out their spite of what Trump is doing for Israel on Jews in general. Is there any evidence the provokers of these actions (assuming they're even hate crimes which, like I said, is likely open for debate) were Trump supporters? If not, logic would assume this is the political left lashing out because of Trump's pro-Israel policies
    I gave you the reason in my post.

    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd
    Those that tend to attribute it to the Trump presidency would be targeting his tendency to appease white supremacist groups as part of his base which tends to embolden them and his strong anti-immigration leanings which tends to exaggerate us vs them thinking, as opposed to direct anti-antisemitism on Trump's part. Trump has, in fact, introduced new legislation to make such attacks 'hate crimes' ...
    In providing place and legitimacy to racist and hate filled groups, he has green lighted them. Trump clearly is not antisemitic, but they ARE. So in feeling emboldened in the general sense by Trumps behavior and comments as regards African-American racism and anti-immigrant rhetoric, they feel emboldened in ALL that they hate, which includes the Jewish people.

    This is, in effect, as consequence of Trump's ignorance of history, and his stubborn refusal to listen to advisers and others that are not ignorant of history. It goes to his incompetence and willingness to embrace these groups as part of his base, not any actual anti-antisemitism on his part.
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 01-06-2020 at 02:17 PM.
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  10. Amen DivineOb amen'd this post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanD View Post
    I can't imagine how anyone could even for second suggest Trump is responsible for this when he's probably the most pro-Israel potus we've had, probably even more than Bush as far as optics and his polices. If there's any sort of political correlation, I'd assume it was attacks from the TDS left taking out their spite of what Trump is doing for Israel on Jews in general. Is there any evidence the provokers of these actions (assuming they're even hate crimes which, like I said, is likely open for debate) were Trump supporters? If not, logic would assume this is the political left lashing out because of Trump's pro-Israel policies
    Yeah seems like all the antisemitism in government is coming from a couple of Democrat congresswomen.

    And in general, over the last few years, the left has gone a bit overboard with trying to characterize everything as racism or a hate crime.

    As an example of the ridiculousness of it:

    Dr. Sonja Falck claims calling someone ‘nerd’ or ‘geek’ should be a hate crime

    https://nypost.com/2019/12/19/dr-son...-a-hate-crime/

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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    I gave you the reason in my post.



    In providing place and legitimacy to racist and hate filled groups, he has green lighted them. Trump clearly is not antisemitic, but they ARE. So in feeling emboldened in the general sense by Trumps behavior and comments as regards African-American racism and anti-immigrant rhetoric, they feel emboldened in ALL that they hate, which includes the Jewish people.

    This is, in effect, as consequence of Trump's ignorance of history, and his stubborn refusal to listen to advisers and others that are not ignorant of history. It goes to his incompetence and willingness to embrace these groups as part of his base, not any actual anti-antisemitism on his part.
    Okay, well, then your TDS is making you seriously stretch some sort of vague correlation. Like I said, I think it's more logical (assuming these "hate attacks" are really related to antisemitism, which is a big assumption) that this is a response by the left's hatred of Trump's appeasement policies towards Israel, also demonstrated (at least in their willingness to engage in political attacks) by the number of triggered attacks we've seen from the left against folks for simply wearing a MAGA hat.
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

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