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Thread: Why Soleimani Was Killed...

  1. #41
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by demi-conservative View Post
    Alarmists were wrong because Trump and his subordinates were willing to lie* so deescalation can happen. This surprised those used to hawkish neocons and neolibs at the wheel.

    Iran also did their share of lying to deescalate. Despite the 'Death to America' slogans that people take far too seriously, Iran's leaders are very cool and pragmatic, meaning no open war.

    *As Starlight points out, believing any of the justifications given is for the gullible.
    Yes, as I've pointed out numerous times, "lying" often seems to be the language of diplomacy. It's not at all unusual for the US, for instance, to publicly scold Israel for attacking a nuclear site, while privately high-fiving them and coordinating with them.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  2. #42
    tWebber demi-conservative's Avatar
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    Now that the dust has settled, demi will just observe that there are downsides to assassinating an ally* who was on a peaceful mission, a helpful and effective ally against the Taliban in 2001 and ISIS recently. On the other hand, just about anyone who is anyone in the Middle East has been both an ally and enemy of the US many times over.

    *going by the new standard of 'da Kurds are our allies'.
    Trump is basically "Bruce Wayne pretending to be a foppish retarded billionaire" tier genius, in case nerds need a simpler metaphor.

  3. #43
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by demi-conservative View Post
    Now that the dust has settled, demi will just observe that there are downsides to assassinating an ally* who was on a peaceful mission, a helpful and effective ally against the Taliban in 2001 and ISIS recently. On the other hand, just about anyone who is anyone in the Middle East has been both an ally and enemy of the US many times over.

    *going by the new standard of 'da Kurds are our allies'.
    The prevailing loyalty being "our enemy's enemy is our friend (today)"
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  4. #44
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by demi-conservative View Post
    For once shunya is making sense, though it is more likely that the hawks were behind it.
    They're demanding US withdrawal as we speak. Instead Trump threatened them with sanctions. I don't think he did it as an out, I think he did it because he was pressured by the senators like that article reported. That just makes more sense to me. And there's no more reason Trump will order a pullout in Iraq than in Afghanistan. He doesn't have the backbone to go up against the MIC and hawks in Washington that prostitute for them (even less now that they have that impeachment noose around his neck). And now, because tensions are heightened, US troops are even more vulnerable than before. But... no war lol.
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    So what? It's possibly true, but if so the President played right into their hands. If that story is true, then other than his own death, the outcome is exactly what Soleimani intended.
    No JimL it was not President Trump playing into the Iranian hands the objective was to kill Soleimani and the group that was planning more attacks. if he was playing into the Iranian hands why did they only make a token attack with plenty of warning hmm.

  6. #46
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Alarmists Were Wrong about the Soleimani Strike

    I suppose the love affair between the leftists and this "beloved general" has gotten lost in all the impeachment hoopla?

    Tehran’s response to it shows that the current U.S. policy toward Iran is working.

    Two weeks ago, the United States seemed on the brink of starting another war in the Middle East after a drone strike killed Iran’s most notorious spymaster, Qasem Soleimani, as he departed an international airport in Baghdad. The shadowy general, in charge of the Iranian equivalent of the CIA, was one of the most effective operatives in the Middle East’s history. He built a sprawling army of proxy militias throughout the region and helped expand Tehran’s dominance in nearby countries.

    But the dust has now settled, and none of the doomsday scenarios that so many in the media warned about has come to pass. It is true that Iran launched a missile attack into U.S. bases in Iraq, but the attack was merely symbolic. As Iraqi officials revealed the following day, Iran had informed them of an imminent attack on U.S. bases, a message that the Iraqis promptly and predictably passed on to the Americans. No fatalities were recorded, but the Iranian regime still told its followers that dozens if not hundreds of Americans were killed as a result of the retaliation.

    Indeed, none of the doomsday scenarios were plausible to begin with. Iran has a narrow menu of options in terms of escalation against the U.S. It is not interested in a direct war with the U.S., nor are any of its proxies or allies in the region. The regime faces increasingly crippling sanctions imposed by Washington, and domestic unrest is building up with occasional street protests. Also, its allies in Iraq and Lebanon have been under unprecedented pressure from grassroots protests, persistent since October. In Syria, the currency is collapsing on historic levels as more than one third of the country remains outside the control of the Iranian-backed government. Iran is embroiled in domestic and regional crises, and many of the gains it made in recent years are still tenuous.

    In the panic that followed the news of Soleimani’s killing, that essential context was overlooked. Pundits and former officials warned of a showdown, between Iran and the U.S., that Tehran would not want. When the confrontation did not pan out, critics still maintained that this was mere luck. One journalist suggested that the war was averted because the mullahs in Iran exercised “more restraint” than the U.S. did.

    In reality, the alarmism was never warranted. ....
    I found this line interesting and ironic: "It is not interested in a direct war with the U.S., nor are any of its proxies or allies in the region." Wasn't the claim (before we found out it was an apparent lie or at least filled with inconsistent info) that he would use terrorist proxies to attack US forces?
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

  7. #47
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanD View Post
    I found this line interesting and ironic: "It is not interested in a direct war with the U.S., nor are any of its proxies or allies in the region." Wasn't the claim (before we found out it was an apparent lie or at least filled with inconsistent info) that he would use terrorist proxies to attack US forces?
    That, too, and word today is that Iran is not ruling out coming back to the negotiating table. Of course, Iran wants it to be conditional on dropping sanctions, so...

    Trump says ‘no thanks’ to Iran's FM negotiation proposal
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  8. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  9. #48
    tWebber demi-conservative's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Yes, as I've pointed out numerous times, "lying" often seems to be the language of diplomacy.
    Not just diplomacy, they'll lie to you to start wars, and lie to stop wars, or for other 'necessary' purposes.
    Trump is basically "Bruce Wayne pretending to be a foppish retarded billionaire" tier genius, in case nerds need a simpler metaphor.

  10. #49
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    That, too, and word today is that Iran is not ruling out coming back to the negotiating table. Of course, Iran wants it to be conditional on dropping sanctions, so...

    Trump says ‘no thanks’ to Iran's FM negotiation proposal
    So the argument is that since their great mastermind got killed, the proxies are supposed to magically stand down even though they're more ticked off than they were before about us occupying the region, and that they also know they now have the Iraqi parliament on their side? Makes total sense
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

  11. #50
    tWebber demi-conservative's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanD View Post
    They're demanding US withdrawal as we speak. Instead Trump threatened them with sanctions. I don't think he did it as an out, I think he did it because he was pressured by the senators like that article reported. That just makes more sense to me. And there's no more reason Trump will order a pullout in Iraq than in Afghanistan. He doesn't have the backbone to go up against the MIC and hawks in Washington that prostitute for them (even less now that they have that impeachment noose around his neck). And now, because tensions are heightened, US troops are even more vulnerable than before. But... no war lol.
    The hole in this theory is why would they allow Trump to be Lucy with the football again and deescalate?

    Quote Originally Posted by seanD View Post
    So the argument is that since their great mastermind got killed, the proxies are supposed to magically stand down even though they're more ticked off than they were before about us occupying the region, and that they also know they now have the Iraqi parliament on their side? Makes total sense
    One Weird Trick to get Iran and Iraq united.
    Trump is basically "Bruce Wayne pretending to be a foppish retarded billionaire" tier genius, in case nerds need a simpler metaphor.

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