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Just war and Iran

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  • #16
    Originally posted by simplicio View Post

    Trump brought in the targeting of targets of cultural importance. Do you agree?
    Iran unfurled their "red flag" over their largest Mosque, The Jamkaran Mosque in Qom. Terrorists routinely use Mosques and places of cultural significance to hide weapons and fighters. They know the Geneva Convention laws and they use them as shields.
    That's what
    - She

    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
    - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
    - Stephen R. Donaldson

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    • #17
      Originally posted by simplicio View Post
      A good point. But don't you think a secular society would do well to keep in mind Christian ethics and morality? When the topic is abortion, I don't think Christians often note that the US is not a theocracy.

      I think it a good thing when the country's leaders are informed by Christian ideas.
      The argument against abortion has really nothing to do with religion or theocracy. I know atheists who are against it. It has to do with personhood and innocent lives. Science says a new human being is made when the egg is fertilized. It is alive, has it's own DNA and it is human.

      I would indeed like the government to hold more Christian values but the fact is I am not going to get what I want.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
        I would indeed like the government to hold more Christian values but the fact is I am not going to get what I want.
        I'm not sure I do want that. Can you imagine the horror that could result if a secular government attempted to enforce its idea of Christian morality?
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          I'm not sure I do want that. Can you imagine the horror that could result if a secular government attempted to enforce its idea of Christian morality?
          Well if they were doing it right, they would not enforce such a thing. Christianity is not about forcing people to believe.

          But I get your point. A secular government trying to act Christian could be a disaster.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
            The argument against abortion has really nothing to do with religion or theocracy. I know atheists who are against it. It has to do with personhood and innocent lives. Science says a new human being is made when the egg is fertilized. It is alive, has it's own DNA and it is human.

            I would indeed like the government to hold more Christian values but the fact is I am not going to get what I want.
            Is a law fair if it only affects poor women?

            Abortion is legal in a lot of countries around the world which essentially makes the law only applicable to women who can’t afford a bus ticket to Canada plus whatever the procedure costs.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Watermelon View Post
              Is a law fair if it only affects poor women?

              Abortion is legal in a lot of countries around the world which essentially makes the law only applicable to women who can’t afford a bus ticket to Canada plus whatever the procedure costs.
              Is it fair to kill an unborn baby who has done nothing wrong, just because he/she is inconvenient?

              Are you saying that poor people should be able to kill their children?

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                I suppose it depends on how you define "terrorist". Define the term broadly enough, and any military act could be called "terrorism".


                Targeting sites of "cultural importance" (and I'm not entirely sure what those are) seems like it could be a good way to break a people's will with limited human casualties.
                The attack on 9-11 is an example of a terrorist attack. The twin towers in Manhattan were chosen because of their symbolic cultural significance.

                Targeting culturally significant sites seldom break the will to fight. They generally galvanize public opinion for the war, retaliation becomes the order of the day.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  The argument against abortion has really nothing to do with religion or theocracy. I know atheists who are against it. It has to do with personhood and innocent lives. Science says a new human being is made when the egg is fertilized. It is alive, has it's own DNA and it is human.

                  I would indeed like the government to hold more Christian values but the fact is I am not going to get what I want.
                  So no opinion on whether our secular government actually heeds religious arguments?

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                    So no opinion on whether our secular government actually heeds religious arguments?
                    What? I don't even recall you asking that. You seem to constantly trying to pick a fight. Why?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      What? I don't even recall you asking that. You seem to constantly trying to pick a fight. Why?
                      I said "actually heeds", when I should have said "should heed". I asked about whether the secular government should heed religious arguments. Click back on the quote button.

                      Since the topic is Just war theory, and someone suggested a goal is crippling the economy, so I asked if that was consistent with a Christian ethic. You responded that this country is not a theocracy. Which I think raises the question ln the role of Christianity in a secular society.

                      Some have argued that non military targets are not appropriate to target.
                      Last edited by simplicio; 01-08-2020, 11:58 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                        I said "actually heeds", when I should have said "should heed". I asked about whether the secular government should heed religious arguments. Click back on the quote button.

                        Since the topic is Just war theory, and someone suggested a goal is crippling the economy, so I asked if that was consistent with a Christian ethic. You responded that this country is not a theocracy. Which I think raises the question ln the role of Christianity in a secular society.

                        Some have argued that non military targets are not appropriate to target.
                        Yes, I think the government should heed Christian values. And I don't think non-military or non-strategic targets are appropriate to hit.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          Is it fair to kill an unborn baby who has done nothing wrong, just because he/she is inconvenient?

                          Are you saying that poor people should be able to kill their children?
                          I’m saying there’s a legal principle of equality before the law. I’m asking the question if a law, not in it’s wording but in its practice, discriminates against a group of people then does it breach this principle?

                          If a murder charge could be dropped for a sum of money, would that law be fair? Would your comment to someone who questions the fairness still be ‘are you saying that poor people should be able to kill other people?’.

                          Fairness in law isn’t about a moral issue, it’s about it’s ability to equally apply to everyone.

                          Why do you think murder(all crimes) is considered a crime committed against the state, rather than against the victim?

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Watermelon View Post
                            I’m saying there’s a legal principle of equality before the law. I’m asking the question if a law, not in it’s wording but in its practice, discriminates against a group of people then does it breach this principle?

                            If a murder charge could be dropped for a sum of money, would that law be fair? Would your comment to someone who questions the fairness still be ‘are you saying that poor people should be able to kill other people?’.

                            Fairness in law isn’t about a moral issue, it’s about it’s ability to equally apply to everyone.

                            Why do you think murder(all crimes) is considered a crime committed against the state, rather than against the victim?
                            If abortion were made illegal it would be fair. To the child. Maybe we should add a law that says if you can afford to leave the country to get an abortion you will be prosecuted when you come back.

                            Heck rich people can do just about whatever they want. Do you think that means we should legalize everything rich people can do to avoid a law? The right thing to do is to stop them from skirting the law instead of letting everyone skirt the law.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              If abortion were made illegal it would be fair. To the child. Maybe we should add a law that says if you can afford to leave the country to get an abortion you will be prosecuted when you come back.

                              Heck rich people can do just about whatever they want. Do you think that means we should legalize everything rich people can do to avoid a law? The right thing to do is to stop them from skirting the law instead of letting everyone skirt the law.
                              So every female aged over 13 is tested for pregnancy at the border before leaving and after returning to the country? That would make it fair.

                              If a law doesn’t apply to everyone due to something like race, religion or social status then shouldn’t it apply to no one?

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                                One element of Just war theory is a reasonable expectation of success.

                                My question is: Does the US has a reasonable expectation of success if the conflict escalates with Iran?
                                They they reasonable expectation of success because they know Iran will only escalate 'so far'.
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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