Just war and Iran

[Mountain Man]

It seems like it's asking too much for Americans to try an assess the morality of whether a war is just, when the vast majority of them can't locate the opposing country on a map.

If you don't mind, can you connect the dots from "ignorance of geography" to "an inability to assess the morality of a military action"? Because I'm not seeing how this is anything but a non sequitur.

[Cow Poke]

Well if they were asking college students, it would explain the misses and ocean targets. There are many videos on youtube of college students not being able to find anything on a map, or not knowing who won WW2 or even the Civil War.

Or maybe they asked Miss America Contestants!!!!

[Sparko]

Or maybe they asked Miss America Contestants!!!!

Either way, from what I can see, most of the ones who are that dumb are liberal students and young adults. So we should do as Star suggested and ignore their opinions.

[Cow Poke]

Either way, from what I can see, most of the ones who are that dumb are liberal students and young adults. So we should do as Star suggested and ignore their opinions.

I see it, at least in part, as further evidence of failure of our education system which is, in fact, run by liberals and their unions.

[Watermelon]

The moral issue of abortion is that a fetus is a human being, not part of the mother. The mother has no more right to kill it in her uterus than she does in it's crib. No matter how rich or poor she is. I think it needs to be made illegal. If some want to skirt the law and they have the money, then if they are caught, they should face the consequences. If someone is poor and they find someone to do it for them cheaply, they should face the consequences. If they get away with it, then there is nothing to be done. People get away with breaking the law and not getting caught all the time. It doesn't mean we don't have laws.

I think you indicated you might be a lawyer in some previous post. If so, remind me never to hire you. You suck at it.

"You have to let my client go because the rich lady next door got away with killing her husband and running off to Mexico, so it is not fair to punish my client for getting caught killing her husband, just because she can't afford the plane ticket to Mexico!"

Well you seem to be responding to an argument I didn’t make.

As I previously explained, my argument is purely on the potential conflict with a foundational legal principle in its application. It isn’t with the moral issue or content of the law itself.

If abortion was only considered a crime if poor people did it, it would be legally unfair. Even though the intention is not to discriminate against the poor, my point is what the practical reality may be.

I’m really not worried about whether I suck as a lawyer or not as long as I’m honest with myself that Im doing the best I can. For a long time my arrogance and ego kept me from Christ. The focus of my life had been an inflated version of myself propped up and defended by my arrogance. Every time my ego took a hit I would have to act to restore it. When Jesus replaced that inflated me as the new focus of my life it was literally a huge weight being lifted off my shoulders.

I’ve seen what happens in the other threads once insults start entering the responses and I have no desire to take part in it so I’ll just leave it here.

[Sparko]

Well you seem to be responding to an argument I didn’t make.

As I previously explained, my argument is purely on the potential conflict with a foundational legal principle in its application. It isn’t with the moral issue or content of the law itself.

If abortion was only considered a crime if poor people did it, it would be legally unfair. Even though the intention is not to discriminate against the poor, my point is what the practical reality may be.

I’m really not worried about whether I suck as a lawyer or not as long as I’m honest with myself that Im doing the best I can. For a long time my arrogance and ego kept me from Christ. The focus of my life had been an inflated version of myself propped up and defended by my arrogance. Every time my ego took a hit I would have to act to restore it. When Jesus replaced that inflated me as the new focus of my life it was literally a huge weight being lifted off my shoulders.

I’ve seen what happens in the other threads once insults start entering the responses and I have no desire to take part in it so I’ll just leave it here.

Sorry I didn't mean to insult you. I get carried away sometimes. I apologize.

I understand that laws need to apply equally to everyone. But there will always be a subset who get away with breaking the law. If so, we need to take steps to plug the holes, not just eliminate the law. If killing a fetus unless the life of the mother is in danger is wrong, then it is wrong for everyone. We don't allow murder to be legal just because someone rich can flee the country and get away with it. Why would we legalize abortion (assuming we made it illegal in the first place) just because some people can find ways to still have an abortion?

[Leonhard]

I've honestly yet to hear of a Just War exposition on this so far.

[Mountain Man]

I've honestly yet to hear of a Just War exposition on this so far.

Would seem to be a moot point because we're not at war.

[Leonhard]

Would seem to be a moot point because we're not at war.

Which is good. I'm not an expert at figuring out the morality of a war like this. My own gut feeling is that it hasn't reached any sort of tipping scale yet.

[NorrinRadd]

The context is Just War theory, its in the title.

Your responses did leave open my questions, and the question still stands: What differentiates your view from the terrorists?

Terrorists target limited and particular targets. But they generally see no distinctions between civilian and military targets, or targets with little military importance. And breaking the will of the enemy is a goal of terrorist tactics.

Bill the Cat named a difference, adherence to the Geneva Convention, which is an acknowledgement of the importance of internationalism as opposed to unilateral polices of the country.

Trump brought in the targeting of targets of cultural importance. Do you agree?

No targets -- cultural, religious, hospitals, schools, day care centers -- should be totally off-limits in cases where the enemy intentionally uses them as shields for military personnel or equipment.

[NorrinRadd]

I'm not sure I do want that. Can you imagine the horror that could result if a secular government attempted to enforce its idea of Christian morality?

I wouldn't even want a *Christian* government trying to enforce its version of morality.

And I wouldn't trust it to stop at "morality."

[NorrinRadd]

Or the US? Or Canada?

I notice, however, that the majority of the answers are clustered in the Middle East, so it's not like they were all wildly wrong. Given the number of countries clustered in that region of the world, think it would be similar to asking non-Americans to identify the location of, say, Iowa on an unlabeled map of the US.

I notice that one cluster in the U.S. seems to be right around Iraqansas.

[Watermelon]

Sorry I didn't mean to insult you. I get carried away sometimes. I apologize.

I understand that laws need to apply equally to everyone. But there will always be a subset who get away with breaking the law. If so, we need to take steps to plug the holes, not just eliminate the law. If killing a fetus unless the life of the mother is in danger is wrong, then it is wrong for everyone. We don't allow murder to be legal just because someone rich can flee the country and get away with it. Why would we legalize abortion (assuming we made it illegal in the first place) just because some people can find ways to still have an abortion?

Thanks Sparko. I know things get a bit heated here, people here are passionate about their views and it drives good discussions on the whole. It’s not that I’m above trading insults, I’m just not too good at it.

The difference between abortion and your murder example is that the person who manages to escape has still committed a crime. The crime has already taken place and they are fleeing to escape the law.

A woman leaving the country to get an abortion overseas hasn’t committed a crime yet. She goes overseas to a country where abortion is legal and has her abortion. Since abortion is legal in that country she still hasn’t committed a crime. She returns without having committed a crime.

[Sparko]

Thanks Sparko. I know things get a bit heated here, people here are passionate about their views and it drives good discussions on the whole. It’s not that I’m above trading insults, I’m just not too good at it.

The difference between abortion and your murder example is that the person who manages to escape has still committed a crime. The crime has already taken place and they are fleeing to escape the law.

A woman leaving the country to get an abortion overseas hasn’t committed a crime yet. She goes overseas to a country where abortion is legal and has her abortion. Since abortion is legal in that country she still hasn’t committed a crime. She returns without having committed a crime.

In that case she gets away with it. Unless they make it a crime to leave the country to have an abortion. Plug the loopholes. It still doesn't mean you should drop the law.

Let's say it is legal to buy and use Heroin in India but not the USA. Should the USA make Heroin legal just because someone rich can fly to India to get Heroin where someone who is poor cannot?

[Cow Poke]

No targets -- cultural, religious, hospitals, schools, day care centers -- should be totally off-limits in cases where the enemy intentionally uses them as shields for military personnel or equipment.

So, let's say you're a drone operator sitting in your office in the states, and your predator drone is circling a daycare from which missiles had been fired.
You are given the green light to fire on the day care, and you can see children outside playing.

You execute?