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Jewish Americans coming home to the GOP?

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  • #61
    Originally posted by simplicio View Post
    Do you think that David was consciously Trinitarian?
    Who cares?

    So why do you think that some Christians see those sorts of Jews as Jews in name only?
    As a Jewish Christian, you are naturally interested in such an issue. I think nothing about it, why should I think anything about what some Christians think about some Jews?
    Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post
      Who cares?



      As a Jewish Christian, you are naturally interested in such an issue. I think nothing about it, why should I think anything about what some Christians think about some Jews?
      Why on earth would anyone care how ultimate loyalties are expressed? I suppose an atheist could honestly respond with "Who cares".

      I suspect that you are accurate, that your mind does not turn to questions in what it means to be heaven bound, or any such things.
      Last edited by simplicio; 01-22-2020, 06:58 AM.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by simplicio View Post
        Which brings up the question of how the great Saints Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, or King David, showed loyalty to Jesus the Christ (is Christ Jesus' surname?)
        Really? Questions like this make me think you are an atheist troll. Either that or a lapsed Catholic. There is a whole book in the new testament that discusses this very thing. I am sure you can find it, being the dedicated Catholic that you are.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          Really? Questions like this make me think you are an atheist troll. Either that or a lapsed Catholic. There is a whole book in the new testament that discusses this very thing. I am sure you can find it, being the dedicated Catholic that you are.
          Ask Christians whether Jews can get to heaven, and what the Trinity means, and what parts of the faith are Trinitarian.


          The discussion started with the questions on ultimate loyalties for the Jew and Christian, which in turn drew on the use of Jew-in-name-only, and the way people view support for Israel. The Heroes of the Faith I mentioned are great saints, and have the beatific vision (heavenly gaze). Which raises the question on their relationship to G-d, who is Trinity.

          The nineteenth century saw the Jewish emancipation, along with much discussion on whether Jews could be patriotic citizens because of some inherent divided loyalty.

          But hey, no one really expects a Christian to actually address such a question on a Christian site?

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by simplicio View Post
            Ask Christians whether Jews can get to heaven, and what the Trinity means, and what parts of the faith are Trinitarian.


            The discussion started with the questions on ultimate loyalties for the Jew and Christian, which in turn drew on the use of Jew-in-name-only, and the way people view support for Israel. The Heroes of the Faith I mentioned are great saints, and have the beatific vision (heavenly gaze). Which raises the question on their relationship to G-d, who is Trinity.

            The nineteenth century saw the Jewish emancipation, along with much discussion on whether Jews could be patriotic citizens because of some inherent divided loyalty.

            But hey, no one really expects a Christian to actually address such a question on a Christian site?
            The OT saints and Jews were under a different covenant which changed when Jesus came on the scene. The OT Saints looked forward to the Messiah, which turned out to be Jesus, which the Jews then rejected and still do. The OT sacrifices stood in for Jesus' Sacrifice until he came into the world. But the sacrifices and temple were destroyed because the sacrifices were no longer needed after Jesus died on the cross. But you would know that as a dedicated Catholic.

            See the difference now between the OT Jews and the Jews of today?

            Did you find the book I was talking about?

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              The OT saints and Jews were under a different covenant which changed when Jesus came on the scene. The OT Saints looked forward to the Messiah, which turned out to be Jesus, which the Jews then rejected and still do. The OT sacrifices stood in for Jesus' Sacrifice until he came into the world. But the sacrifices and temple were destroyed because the sacrifices were no longer needed after Jesus died on the cross. But you would know that as a dedicated Catholic.

              See the difference now between the OT Jews and the Jews of today?

              Did you find the book I was talking about?
              Are you arguing that the OT blood sacrifices were efficacious? Did they reconcile sinful man with the divine perfection, or was it a legal purification, not affecting the soul?

              Jews today recite the Shema, as did many in the OT. Same prayer and same belief. One, and only one, route to heaven, not different routes for different times. The normative route, religious practices have changed.

              What does acceptance of Jesus look like?

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                Are you arguing that the OT blood sacrifices were efficacious? Did they reconcile sinful man with the divine perfection, or was it a legal purification, not affecting the soul?
                Again, look up that book I mentioned earlier in the NT. It explains this directly. How is it you are unaware of it? Tell me the name of the book I am referencing if you know.

                Jews today recite the Shema, as did many in the OT. Same prayer and same belief. One, and only one, route to heaven, not different routes for different times. The normative route, religious practices have changed.


                Are you sure you are Christian? You should know all this already. Why does it seem like all of your posts are attacking Christianity? Why are you combative with your fellow Christians? Do you believe Jews are saved today without believing Jesus died for their sins and is the Christ(Messiah)?

                What does acceptance of Jesus look like?
                You don't know?

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  Again, look up that book I mentioned earlier in the NT. It explains this directly. How is it you are unaware of it? Tell me the name of the book I am referencing if you know.





                  Are you sure you are Christian? You should know all this already. Why does it seem like all of your posts are attacking Christianity? Why are you combative with your fellow Christians? Do you believe Jews are saved today without believing Jesus died for their sins and is the Christ(Messiah)?

                  You don't know?
                  You really think I am unfamiliar with Hebrews? In what way were the sacrifices under the old law efficacious, and did they effect what they represented, or was it a forensic or legal purification, legal justification?

                  "All Jews go to hell" and "all Christians go to heaven" are both problematic. Each presupposes what acceptance or rejection of the Christ entails, in a way which is not consistent with the Bible, and produces either presumption or arrogance.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                    You really think I am unfamiliar with Hebrews?
                    Let me answer that in a sec...

                    In what way were the sacrifices under the old law efficacious, and did they effect what they represented, or was it a forensic or legal purification, legal justification?

                    "All Jews go to hell" and "all Christians go to heaven" are both problematic. Each presupposes what acceptance or rejection of the Christ entails, in a way which is not consistent with the Bible, and produces either presumption or arrogance.
                    Yes, yes I do think you are unfamiliar with Hebrews.

                    And with the gospel.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      Let me answer that in a sec...



                      Yes, yes I do think you are unfamiliar with Hebrews.

                      And with the gospel.
                      If I am wrong, then address the questions about sacrifice under the old law, which draw on the purposes and scope of the covenants.

                      Your explanation is a good starting point, but it is just that. It is the basic Sunday School pat answer, suitable for a child's catechism or a "baby Christian". Biblical understanding ought not end with what was learned as a child, the richness of the faith is more than a child's understanding.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                        Are you arguing that the OT blood sacrifices were efficacious? Did they reconcile sinful man with the divine perfection, or was it a legal purification, not affecting the soul?

                        Jews today recite the Shema, as did many in the OT. Same prayer and same belief. One, and only one, route to heaven, not different routes for different times. The normative route, religious practices have changed.

                        What does acceptance of Jesus look like?
                        What does this have to do with your point? It seems you just keep asking more questions, moving further affield. Why should we continue to answer you if you don't engage in dialogue?

                        You have yet to engage with my responses.

                        Do you believe not engaging is a useful debating technique? How does that make you feel?

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                          If I am wrong, then address the questions about sacrifice under the old law, which draw on the purposes and scope of the covenants.

                          Your explanation is a good starting point, but it is just that. It is the basic Sunday School pat answer, suitable for a child's catechism or a "baby Christian". Biblical understanding ought not end with what was learned as a child, the richness of the faith is more than a child's understanding.
                          You tell me Simplicio. Or you could read Hebrews which explains what the sacrifices represented in the OT.

                          Also, you seem to think that accepting Jesus as your Savior and the Christ is not needed to be saved today. That doesn't sound very Catholic of you.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                            What does this have to do with your point? It seems you just keep asking more questions, moving further affield. Why should we continue to answer you if you don't engage in dialogue?

                            You have yet to engage with my responses.

                            Do you believe not engaging is a useful debating technique? How does that make you feel?
                            ^That. He just ignores you and asks more questions, never actually giving a response to what we ask or state.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              You tell me Simplicio. Or you could read Hebrews which explains what the sacrifices represented in the OT.

                              Also, you seem to think that accepting Jesus as your Savior and the Christ is not needed to be saved today. That doesn't sound very Catholic of you.
                              The Catholic pathway to salvation is more narrowly defined as well than jut accepting Jesus as Savior. It will well defined what a person has to do to reach Salvation.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                                The Catholic pathway to salvation is more narrowly defined as well than jut accepting Jesus as Savior. It will well defined what a person has to do to reach Salvation.
                                Yeah I know. But Simplicio seems to be claiming differently. But when I ask, he just "moves on" and tries to put the onus back on me to answer his questions.

                                Comment

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