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Thread: Jewish Americans coming home to the GOP?

  1. #11
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    This thread parallels another thread, a thread which relies on common talking points. The arguments are strikingly similar used to support the idea that black voters' interests lie in the Republican party; and Jewish voters interests lie in the Republican Party.

    Both discussions ignore the issues important to the electoral blocs.

    But by dismissing it as trolling does give you an excuse to avoid discussing it.
    Actually, no, because a black is a black because he's black.

    A Jew is a Jew because:
    A) His/her mother was a Jew (cultural/relational)
    2) He/she was born in Israel (national)
    C) He/she converted to Judaism (religious)
    Are you aware that there are hundreds of thousands of secular Jews, and even thousands and thousands of atheist Jews?

    You really can't group "Jews" together like you're doing.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  2. #12
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    This thread parallels another thread, a thread which relies on common talking points. The arguments are strikingly similar used to support the idea that black voters' interests lie in the Republican party; and Jewish voters interests lie in the Republican Party.

    Both discussions ignore the issues important to the electoral blocs.

    But by dismissing it as trolling does give you an excuse to avoid discussing it.
    I am discussing it. I answered your question in post #2 for example.

    You seem to think all blacks and all Jews should think alike. I know several blacks who are Republicans and some who are Democrats. I know that the Democrats have recently been very anti-Israel and that ticks off American Jews. I also know that most conservative Christians feel that Jews and Israel are our friends and allies. Jesus and the Apostles were all Jews, after all.

    As a Christian what do YOU think of Jews, and why?

  3. #13
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Actually, no, because a black is a black because he's black.

    A Jew is a Jew because:
    A) His/her mother was a Jew (cultural/relational)
    2) He/she was born in Israel (national)
    C) He/she converted to Judaism (religious)
    Are you aware that there are hundreds of thousands of secular Jews, and even thousands and thousands of atheist Jews?

    You really can't group "Jews" together like you're doing.
    Do you really think that those fine distinctions are kept in mind when the conversation turns to Israel, or Jewish support for Israel, or Jewish influence in society?

  4. #14
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    I am discussing it. I answered your question in post #2 for example.

    You seem to think all blacks and all Jews should think alike. I know several blacks who are Republicans and some who are Democrats. I know that the Democrats have recently been very anti-Israel and that ticks off American Jews. I also know that most conservative Christians feel that Jews and Israel are our friends and allies. Jesus and the Apostles were all Jews, after all.

    As a Christian what do YOU think of Jews, and why?
    What do I think of the Jews? I think that most Jews are sensitive to occurrences of antisemitism. I do not believe that they are designed for hell.

    How many American blacks have not felt the sting of prejudice, of racism? I do believe that the potential exists for African Americans to move to the Republican party and conservatism because many are conservative. However, Republicans need to counter the perceived undercurrent of racism within its ranks, and ditto for the conservative movement.

    I do not think denial of, or some Dems do it too is productive.

  5. #15
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    What do I think of the Jews? I think that most Jews are sensitive to occurrences of antisemitism. I do not believe that they are designed for hell.

    How many American blacks have not felt the sting of prejudice, of racism? I do believe that the potential exists for African Americans to move to the Republican party and conservatism because many are conservative. However, Republicans need to counter the perceived undercurrent of racism within its ranks, and ditto for the conservative movement.

    I do not think denial of, or some Dems do it too is productive.
    The extreme right (KKK, White Supremacists) are not representative of the GOP, so characterizing the GOP as racist is nonsense to begin with. It make a convenient whipping boy for the Democrats to use but it isn't true. The average Republican isn't any more or less racist than the average Democrat. And there are plenty of racist black republicans and democrats too. Stop painting with such a broad brush.

    The thing that holds back most blacks from joining the Republican party isn't white racism, it is being demonized by other blacks, being called "race traitors," "uncle Toms" etc.

  6. #16
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    Do you really think that those fine distinctions are kept in mind when the conversation turns to Israel, or Jewish support for Israel, or Jewish influence in society?
    Not to the ignorant.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  7. #17
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    The extreme right (KKK, White Supremacists) are not representative of the GOP, so characterizing the GOP as racist is nonsense to begin with. It make a convenient whipping boy for the Democrats to use but it isn't true. The average Republican isn't any more or less racist than the average Democrat. And there are plenty of racist black republicans and democrats too. Stop painting with such a broad brush.

    The thing that holds back most blacks from joining the Republican party isn't white racism, it is being demonized by other blacks, being called "race traitors," "uncle Toms" etc.
    I think you are equating all forms of racism with the overt racism exhibited by the KKK. Since many blacks, and Whites, recognize that racist ideas can exist in less overt forms, such as structural racism, shows the disconnect.

    And yes, many Jews were uncomfortable with the insinuations, by Republicans, of the divided loyalties of the American Army office of Ukrainian descent. Which shows that many Republicans are disconnected from the actual concerns of Jewish voters.

  8. #18
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    I think you are equating all forms of racism with the overt racism exhibited by the KKK. Since many blacks, and Whites, recognize that racist ideas can exist in less overt forms, such as structural racism, shows the disconnect.
    Oh! You meant LIBERAL racism, where they designate everything Republicans and whites do as "racist" -- why didn't you say so?

  9. Amen Cow Poke, RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  10. #19
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Oh! You meant LIBERAL racism, where they designate everything Republicans and whites do as "racist" -- why didn't you say so?
    So you don't really recognize any other soft forms of racism, just its overuse by liberals.

    Since that sentiment exists across the Republicans, and the conservatives, I think it demonstrates the difficulties in drawing the two constituencies under the Republican banner.

    Like your example about Omar's charge of dual loyalty, its only bad when a liberal does it!

    To the extent that persons, or groups, acquiesce to racist ideas, they are racist.
    Last edited by simplicio; 01-10-2020 at 10:57 AM.

  11. #20
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    So you don't really recognize any other soft forms of racism, just its overuse by liberals.

    Since that sentiment exists across the Republicans, and the conservatives, I think it demonstrates the difficulties in drawing the two constituencies under the Republican banner.

    Like your example about Omar's charge of dual loyalty, its only bad when a liberal does it!

    To the extent that persons, or groups, acquiesce to racist ideas, they are racist.
    No. But apparently you have bought into the liberal claim that all white people are racist because they are white and especially if they are white males and conservative. But the liberals are woke so since their white people recognize they are inherently racist then that means they are not racist after all.

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