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  1. #11
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    Let's take a look at "this generation" throughout scripture, just for kicks (NRSV):
    Source: Gen. 7:1

    Then the Lord said to Noah, “Go into the ark, you and all your household, for I have seen that you alone are righteous before me in this generation.

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    Current generation, clearly.
    Source: Deut. 1:34-36

    34 When the Lord heard your words, he was wrathful and swore: 35 “Not one of these—not one of this evil generation—shall see the good land that I swore to give to your ancestors, 36 except Caleb son of Jephunneh. He shall see it, and to him and to his descendants I will give the land on which he set foot, because of his complete fidelity to the Lord.”

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    Current generation, clearly.
    Source: Ps. 12:7

    You, O Lord, will protect us; you will guard us from this generation forever.

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    Current generation, clearly.
    Source: Mat. 11:15-17

    15 Let anyone with ears listen! 16 “But to what will I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling to one another, 17 ‘We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we wailed, and you did not mourn.’

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    Current generation, clearly.
    Source: Mat. 12:38-45

    38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to him, “Teacher, we wish to see a sign from you.” 39 But he answered them, “An evil and adulterous generation asks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so for three days and three nights the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth. 41 The people of Nineveh will rise up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the proclamation of Jonah, and see, something greater than Jonah is here! 42 The queen of the South will rise up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because she came from the ends of the earth to listen to the wisdom of Solomon, and see, something greater than Solomon is here!
    43 “When the unclean spirit has gone out of a person, it wanders through waterless regions looking for a resting place, but it finds none. 44 Then it says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came.’ When it comes, it finds it empty, swept, and put in order. 45 Then it goes and brings along seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they enter and live there; and the last state of that person is worse than the first. So will it be also with this evil generation.”

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    Current generation, clearly (all instances).
    Source: Mat. 23:29-36

    29 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous, 30 and you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 Thus you testify against yourselves that you are descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of your ancestors. 33 You snakes, you brood of vipers! How can you escape being sentenced to hell? 34 Therefore I send you prophets, sages, and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town, 35 so that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 Truly I tell you, all this will come upon this generation.

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    Current generation, clearly.
    Source: Mat. 24:34

    Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place.

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    The passage at issue.
    Source: Mark 8:12

    And he sighed deeply in his spirit and said, “Why does this generation ask for a sign? Truly I tell you, no sign will be given to this generation.”

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    Current generation, clearly.
    Source: Mark 8:38

    Those who are ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of them the Son of Man will also be ashamed when he comes in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

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    Current generation, clearly.
    Source: Mark 13:30

    Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place.

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    Parallel to the passage at issue.
    Source: Luke 7:28-32

    28 I tell you, among those born of women no one is greater than John; yet the least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.” 29 (And all the people who heard this, including the tax collectors, acknowledged the justice of God, because they had been baptized with John’s baptism. 30 But by refusing to be baptized by him, the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected God’s purpose for themselves.) 31 “To what then will I compare the people of this generation, and what are they like? 32 They are like children sitting in the marketplace and calling to one another, ‘We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we wailed, and you did not weep.’

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    Current generation, clearly.
    Source: Luke 11:29-32

    29 When the crowds were increasing, he began to say, “This generation is an evil generation; it asks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah. 30 For just as Jonah became a sign to the people of Nineveh, so the Son of Man will be to this generation. 31 The queen of the South will rise at the judgment with the people of this generation and condemn them, because she came from the ends of the earth to listen to the wisdom of Solomon, and see, something greater than Solomon is here! 32 The people of Nineveh will rise up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the proclamation of Jonah, and see, something greater than Jonah is here!

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    Current generation, clearly.
    Source: Luke 11:45-52

    45 One of the lawyers answered him, “Teacher, when you say these things, you insult us too.” 46 And he said, “Woe also to you lawyers! For you load people with burdens hard to bear, and you yourselves do not lift a finger to ease them. 47 Woe to you! For you build the tombs of the prophets whom your ancestors killed. 48 So you are witnesses and approve of the deeds of your ancestors; for they killed them, and you build their tombs. 49 Therefore also the Wisdom of God said, ‘I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and persecute,’ 50 so that this generation may be charged with the blood of all the prophets shed since the foundation of the world, 51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who perished between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, it will be charged against this generation. 52 Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge; you did not enter yourselves, and you hindered those who were entering.”

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    Current generation, clearly.
    Source: Luke 17:22-25

    22 Then he said to the disciples, “The days are coming when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. 23 They will say to you, ‘Look there!’ or ‘Look here!’ Do not go, do not set off in pursuit. 24 For as the lightning flashes and lights up the sky from one side to the other, so will the Son of Man be in his day. 25 But first he must endure much suffering and be rejected by this generation.

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    Current generation, clearly.
    Source: Luke 21:32

    Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all things have taken place.

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    Parallel to the passage at issue.
    Source: Acts 2:38-40

    38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you, for your children, and for all who are far away, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to him.” 40 And he testified with many other arguments and exhorted them, saying, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.”

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    Current generation, clearly.

    Huh. Turns out that every other use of the phrase is talking about the generation listening - and even seanD admits that the passage at hand looks like it should be interpreted that way as well.
    The problem with making a comparison with other uses of generation as proof-text that Jesus meant his generation is it gives more ammo to the skeptical crowd who argue Jesus was wrong in his prediction, because one of the signs was his return. And then that explains why the preterist has to conclude Matthew 24:30-31 isn't the parousia but the 70 AD war, which just looks extremely disingenuous.
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

  2. #12
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Like I were to be talking about a generation 60 years from now, then referred to that generation as "this generation" (the one I'm talking about in the future)...
    And the word "this" can also mean "that":

    "I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left." (Lk 17:34)

    Same word, only here it means "that night", so we might have "that generation" in Matthew and Luke. Also, Jesus seemed to know his words here would be controversial: "Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away." (Lk 21:32-33)

    Blessings,
    Lee
    Last edited by lee_merrill; 01-12-2020 at 07:11 PM.
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  3. Amen seanD amen'd this post.
  4. #13
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    And the word "this" can also mean "that":

    "I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left." (Lk 17:34)

    Same word, only here it means "that night", so we might have "that generation" in Matthew and Luke. Also, Jesus seemed to know his words here would be controversial: "Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away." (Lk 21:32-33)

    Blessings,
    Lee
    Seems so much more simple than to say Jesus's prediction wasn't wrong because Matthew 24:30-31 doesn't really mean the return of Christ, as some sort of ridiculous cover story.
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

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