Originally posted by seanD
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EVERY Democrat Opposed Senate Resolution Honoring Military for Soleimani Strike
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Originally posted by DivineOb View PostMy point in posting that link was to point out initial evidence that he killed Soleimani for reasons other than an imminent attack. That it was possibly done to buy votes in the impeachment trial makes his actions even worse.
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Originally posted by seanD View PostI disagree. I think it puts the onus more on the senators. If Trump is being extorted to act against Iran (or be impeached), it begs the question why he didn't green light all-out retaliation against Iran when they attacked our bases (something he was being pressured to do last year as well). It shows his remarkable restraint under the circumstances in spite of being pressured to do so.
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Originally posted by DivineOb View PostOkey doke.
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Originally posted by seanD View PostI don't know why that's so difficult to conclude. The article you linked to doesn't say Trump solicited the quid pro quo himself, it claims he was under pressure to do their bidding. We know that senators like Graham practically have a fetish for US military involvement with Iran. I don't know how accurate the article is but that's what it clearly claims. Then when you couple that with the fact he was 10 minutes away from ordering a strike last year but then called it off, it shows me that what he's said in the past about not being a fan of military interventionism seems to be true (though I still don';t get why he surrounds himself with neocons, but that's a separate issue).
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Originally posted by DivineOb View PostMy point in posting that link was to point out initial evidence that he killed Soleimani for reasons other than an imminent attack. That it was possibly done to buy votes in the impeachment trial makes his actions even worse.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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So ... Rogue? Just kind of tapped out of this one?
Originally posted by Sam View PostYes, as OBP noted, I asked a few:
That post and those questions led to something of a tangent but you did not address the questions, presented in the context of your claim that Democrat's "hatred for Trump" was leading them to "snub our service men and women".
Understanding that, along with the additional information that Republicans (many here!) were critical of Obama's decision to kill al-Awlaki and there was no call for a resolution to "honor the troops", are there answers? If the administration is, in fact, lying about its justification for ordering the assassination of Soleimani, isn't it plausible that this resolution -- crafted as a counter-measure to the resolution seeking to limit Trump's war-making ability RE: Iran -- is serving the ulterior motive of stigmatizing criticism?
And isn't that exactly how you're playing it out in this thread?
--Sam"I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
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Originally posted by Sam View PostSo ... Rogue? Just kind of tapped out of this one?
What does that do with the Democrats unanimous decision to snub our service people?Originally posted by Sam View PostGiven SecDef Esper's admission today that he did not see any intelligence detailing the imminent threat to embassies that Trump has claimed as the justification for Soleimani's assassination (SecDef gets the PDB so if he didn't see it, it ain't there), do you have any sense of ambivalence about this rah-rah attitude?
What does that do with the Democrats unanimous decision to snub our service people?Originally posted by Sam View PostWere the Congress members who questioned the intelligence of an active WMD program in Iraq wrong to oppose what proved to be an immensely costly, ineffective, and destabilizing war? Were the people who tied an unwise military strategy to patriotism then right to do so?
What does that do with the Democrats unanimous decision to snub our service people?Originally posted by Sam View PostIsn't hatred of Democrats clouding your vision and keeping you from treating the administration's action, which currently appears to have been retaliatory and not preemptive (and therefore likely illegal), as an act of war to be honestly and scrupulously questioned rather than blindly cheered?
This was nothing but a feeble attempt to obfuscate and try to distract and deflect attention to the basic fact that the Democrats unanimously agreed to give a slap in the face to our service people. In their blind hatred of Trump they decided to use them as pawns to be exploited to feed that hatred.
And you wondered why I ignored you.
As for al-Awlaki... generally we try not to execute American citizens without at least affording them due process. When Obama did it probably wouldn't be a great idea to spotlight that fact.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostWhat does that do with the Democrats unanimous decision to snub our service people?
Every politician knows that snubbing the military is a dangerous move and they will likely be punished for it. Do you believe that the Democrats are just bad at politicking which is why they taking the foolish action of unnecessarily snubbing the military or could there be a more complicated explanation for their vote?
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostLet's see...
What does that do with the Democrats unanimous decision to snub our service people?
What does that do with the Democrats unanimous decision to snub our service people?
What does that do with the Democrats unanimous decision to snub our service people?
This was nothing but a feeble attempt to obfuscate and try to distract and deflect attention to the basic fact that the Democrats unanimously agreed to give a slap in the face to our service people. In their blind hatred of Trump they decided to use them as pawns to be exploited to feed that hatred.
And you wondered why I ignored you.
As for al-Awlaki... generally we try not to execute American citizens without at least affording them due process. When Obama did it probably wouldn't be a great idea to spotlight that fact.
You say that it wouldn't be a "great idea" to "spotlight the fact" that Obama made a controversial and potentially illegal decision to assassinate a terrorist ... right after saying that Trump's controversial and possibly illegal decision to assassinate a terrorist should be spotlighted by Congress. And that not doing so with Trump's decision is a "slap in the face" to the service people carrying out the attack but a prudent and acceptable course of action for Obama's decision, despite it being the same kind of operational force.
No, the underlying motivation there was clear as day.
--Sam"I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
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Originally posted by Sam View PostNo, I wasn't wondering -- it seemed pretty obvious at the time and is reinforced here:
You say that it wouldn't be a "great idea" to "spotlight the fact" that Obama made a controversial and potentially illegal decision to assassinate a terrorist ... right after saying that Trump's controversial and possibly illegal decision to assassinate a terrorist should be spotlighted by Congress. And that not doing so with Trump's decision is a "slap in the face" to the service people carrying out the attack but a prudent and acceptable course of action for Obama's decision, despite it being the same kind of operational force.
No, the underlying motivation there was clear as day.
--Sam
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by DivineOb View PostI don't want to get interrupt your conversation with Sam but I have a QQ if that's ok.
Every politician knows that snubbing the military is a dangerous move and they will likely be punished for it. Do you believe that the Democrats are just bad at politicking which is why they taking the foolish action of unnecessarily snubbing the military or could there be a more complicated explanation for their vote?
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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00000000000000ab000-00aaam.jpg
'cuz it's totally different when the Obamessiah did it
and did it and did it and did it and did it etc.
As Obama once said: "Turns out I’m really good at killing people. Didn’t know that was gonna be a strong suit of mine."
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostFor some (not so) strange reason you omitted the part where al-Awlaki is an American citizen (born in New Mexico) without the rights of due process being afforded so there is absolutely no question about it's illegality. The taking out of Soleimani is much more of a gray area with many reasons to say it was totally legal. For instance, something that is constantly, and determinedly ignored by those who say it was unlawful is a little thing called the Covert Action Statute (CAS) -- which also came into play during the raid that took out bin Laden in Pakistan.
But this is all nit-picking for your original argument, which was that congressional resolutions like this are 1) typical and 2) about honoring the troops who conduct these attacks, irrespective of the political or legal questions around the order. You have made accusations that you prove by your equivocating to simply be partisan attacks ungrounded in a consistent concern for honoring service members.
--Sam"I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
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