The blue-state exodus gains momentum

[Sparko]

It's getting harder to find and recruit top management, so...

I bet that doesn't make the front line people very happy. Of course a lot of fast food restaurants pay more than min wage. I think McD's starts at $9 something.

In-and-Out seems to pay around $13/hour for their workers though.

[lilpixieofterror]

If people can accumulate wealth in the order > $100 billion of dollars tax free then that sounds like bug, not a feature (don't @ me about capital gains taxes, I know how this stuff works). I pay my fair share of taxes *now*. Am I glad I can make money "for free" by holding the stock I've been granted and then only pay 15% when I sell it down the line? Sure, I make out like a bandit that way. But if someone who doesn't work a job who gets stock grants asked me to justify it as fair I'd admit that I can't.

Serious question: Why are you so interested in defending people who make more money than you would in 1000+ lifetimes? They have advantages which we could only dream of having. They can ask for a phone call with the president *and get one*! I'm not talking about being fair to people who make as much as me or 10x as much as me. I'm talking someone who makes far more than 100x (it's much more than that but I don't want to out my salary) wha I make in a year in just *one hour*.

Look at my chart again. The 400 richest individuals are paying lower taxes than every other group and lower taxes than at any time in the past 70 years! If you can't intuitively see that that is unjust to the rest of us who actually have to compromise our standard of living to pay the taxes we owe then there's nothing I can say which will change your mind.

you will pay more too.

If I gave you $1 billion and asked you to spend it over your life without giving anything to charity or church can you even envision how you would do that? I have a good imagination and I can't even start to figure out what I'd do.

[lilpixieofterror]

Do you agree we should index the minimum wage to cost of living / inflation? If not, what, in your mind, is the purpose of a minimum wage? To me the purpose is to allow *everyone* the chance to achieve a minimum acceptable standard of living, even those who don't have more valuable skills. Do you see things differently?

[Cow Poke]

I bet that doesn't make the front line people very happy. Of course a lot of fast food restaurants pay more than min wage. I think McD's starts at $9 something.

In-and-Out seems to pay around $13/hour for their workers though.

And it's something to which front line people can aspire.

A friend of mine owns THREE McDondald's restaurants, and he started off stumbling into the bus station's McDondald's in Houston --- he complained about the crappy breakfast they cooked, and the manager asked him "you think you can do better"? He took off his coat and said, "show me the kitchen!"

[Cow Poke]

Yeah, but don't you get snazzy clothes to wear?

[DivineOb]

Would it be "fair" if we reduced taxes on the richest 400 to 0%? If not, why not?

It's not jealousy, sweetheart. Get out of here with that kind of stuff. I think it's great that he's as rich as he is. I just want him to cover the expenses for the services he derives.

It costs we taxpayers far more to protect his assets than it costs to protect mine. He benefits far more from having a healthy and educated workforce than I do. Yet I'm paying far more of my income to pay for those services than he's paying (again, I know how stocks work). And when he sells his shares he will continue to pay a lower fraction of his income than I am paying. That's *not fair*.

Do you agree that, when he ultimately takes a dollar and spends it on something, he should have paid at least as much taxes to get that dollar as I have to pay to get a dollar?

And whose fault is that?

It's the fault of the politicians who lowered the tax rates that low. Why did they do that? Could it have anything to do with the tons of discretionary money the ultra rich have to throw at and distort our political system? How many politicians have you donated $2700 to?

I'm done telling you that I understand how these things work, dear.

you will pay more too.

I'll gladly wear the "obsessed with 'fair share'" as a badge of honor. Who wouldn't? You I guess?

I consistently vote for tax increases which affect me (on CA ballot measures). The ACA doesn't benefit me directly and never will because I have always gotten excellent health insurance through my employer. Yet it filled me with joy and pride when we finally took that step for the country even though it hit me directly.

Let's change the rules for *everyone* so we can provide for *everyone*. I'm not a "I got mine" type of person.

Because I'm trying to understand why you care so much about people who have so much money! The rich will do everything they can to reduce their tax burden, they don't need help from people just struggling to get by!

[lilpixieofterror]

Yeah, but don't you get snazzy clothes to wear?

[lilpixieofterror]

Would it be "fair" if we reduced taxes on the richest 400 to 0%? If not, why not?

As I said, fair is opinion.

It's not jealousy, sweetheart. Get out of here with that kind of stuff. I think it's great that he's as rich as he is. I just want him to cover the expenses for the services he derives.

It costs we taxpayers far more to protect his assets than it costs to protect mine. He benefits far more from having a healthy and educated workforce than I do. Yet I'm paying far more of my income to pay for those services than he's paying (again, I know how stocks work). And when he sells his shares he will continue to pay a lower fraction of his income than I am paying. That's *not fair*.

Do you agree that, when he ultimately takes a dollar and spends it on something, he should have paid at least as much taxes to get that dollar as I have to pay to get a dollar?

Why? Do you have a reason I should care?

It's the fault of the politicians who lowered the tax rates that low. Why did they do that? Could it have anything to do with the tons of discretionary money the ultra rich have to throw at and distort our political system? How many politicians have you donated $2700 to?

What is our tax rates compared to the rest of the world? Are they competitive?

I'm done telling you that I understand how these things work, dear.

And yet you act oblivious to how the rules work.

I'll gladly wear the "obsessed with 'fair share'" as a badge of honor. Who wouldn't? You I guess?

I consistently vote for tax increases which affect me (on CA ballot measures). The ACA doesn't benefit me directly and never will because I have always gotten excellent health insurance through my employer. Yet it filled me with joy and pride when we finally took that step for the country even though it hit me directly.

Let's change the rules for *everyone* so we can provide for *everyone*. I'm not a "I got mine" type of person.

Or you use the tools you have to figure out how to earn more vs depending on others to provide your needs.

Because I'm trying to understand why you care so much about people who have so much money! The rich will do everything they can to reduce their tax burden, they don't need help from people just struggling to get by!

Because I care about facts and not subjective opinions. Change the rules, you change the game. What do you not understand about that?

[DivineOb]

As I said, fair is opinion.

If you aren't going to answer direct questions I'm not going to waste any more time with you.

[lilpixieofterror]

If you aren't going to answer direct questions I'm not going to waste any more time with you.

[Sparko]

Personally, I think Bezo's has contributed greatly to our present society. Amazon pretty much revolutionized how we shop today. We also have the echos which allows us to pretty much have the smart computer home sci-fi has promised us for decades. Ebooks and readers (Kindle) allow us to carry thousands of books with us everywhere we go. Audible gives us electronic audio books, no more bulky cassettes and CDs. Amazon also gives jobs to millions of people. At least until he automates it all

It's not like he ripped us all off to get rich. We hand him (and his company) our money gladly. I believe it is a fair exchange.

[DivineOb]

It tells me that we expect more of our government over time.
(ETA: Since I have to spell everything out.) And therefore we need to raise more money to fund those advancements.

Now answer my question. In your opinion would lowering the income tax on the 400 wealthiest down to 0% be "fair"?

[Sparko]

It tells me that we expect more of our government over time.

Now answer my question. In your opinion would lowering the income tax on the 400 wealthiest down to 0% be "fair"?

I will answer it. No. but neither is taxing them at a way higher percentage than everyone else. I am actually for a flat tax myself. I think if a rich person pays 30% and I pay 30% he is paying a lot more dollar wise than I am. Rich people also tend to be the ones who own corporations that employ a lot of people, generating jobs, creating products, and keeping the economy going.

The American Dream used to be to get wealthy, and retire to sit on the beach. Now it seems to be to sit on the beach and tax the rich to pay for it.

[DivineOb]

I will answer it. No. but neither is taxing them at a way higher percentage than everyone else. I am actually for a flat tax myself. I think if a rich person pays 30% and I pay 30% he is paying a lot more dollar wise than I am. Rich people also tend to be the ones who own corporations that employ a lot of people, generating jobs, creating products, and keeping the economy going.

So why not just tax everyone the same number of dollars then? Or go with a national sales tax? Those both seem equally "fair" to me as saying everyone pays the same percentage.

The American Dream used to be to get wealthy, and retire to sit on the beach. Now it seems to be to sit on the beach and tax the rich to pay for it.

Troll better.

[Sparko]

So why not just tax everyone the same number of dollars then? Or go with a national sales tax? Those both seem equally "fair" to me as saying everyone pays the same percentage.

Because if you are trying to be "fair" someone giving the same percentage is more fair than giving the same dollar amount. It progressively gets higher in dollars the more you make.

Troll better.

Not trolling. Many liberals today seem to think being rich is evil itself, but are fine with the rich paying them, as if they were owed the money. Remember the whole 99% Occupy thing? And now socialists. Used to be people wanted to get rich or at least wanted to be well off and it was a goal to be strived for, not hated.