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  • #91
    Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
    LPoT,

    I thought about it and I think you deserve a better answer than I gave yesterday.

    I don't know how to define those things. I'm a computer scientist not a politician or an economist. But I think I can still comment more generally. Are you familiar with the "line drawing fallacy"? It says that just because we can't clearly define where the line on something is that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

    Let me illustrate with the not at all incendiary topic of abortion (but which I think illustrates things clearly). I believe it is permissible to get an abortion one nanosecond after the egg is fertilized. I also believe it is wrong to get an abortion one nanosecond before the baby is born. Where is the line at which it goes from right to wrong? I don't know. But we can still debate and help shrink the range within which we think that line exists. Make sense?

    From the animation I posted you can see that the richest 400 individuals are paying *less* in taxes than at any time in the last 70 years. Bezos made $215 million per day last year! Surely you agree that the more money you make the more you should pay, right? Both because it "hurts" less when you have more (If you gave me a $1000 tax cut / increase it would not impact my standard of living at all) and because they benefit more from the society than those with less (I own real estate. Surely you agree I benefit more from the police than someone who only rents a room). Do we agree on these things?
    Which is totally irrelevant to the question of they are paying ‘their fair share’ because there maybe reasons they pay less now or the way taxes are counted has changed, etc. ‘Their fair share’ is a subjective opinion. If you don’t like Jeff Bezos making so much money, don’t buy from Amazon. Seems like an easy solution to me. You also seem to confuse what Amazon makes vs what Jeff Bezos makes. Just because Amazon took in billions of dollars doesn’t mean he made it personally. Much of that goes right back into the business or paying investors and if you have a IRA or 401k, you may very well collect from those profits.
    Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 01-13-2020, 09:29 PM.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
      Which is totally irrelevant to the question of they are paying ‘their fair share’ because there maybe reasons they pay less now or the way taxes are counted has changed, etc. ‘Their fair share’ is a subjective opinion. If you don’t like Jeff Bezos making so much money, don’t buy from Amazon. Seems like an easy solution to me.
      Trying hard to convince myself you're not just the Dollar Tree Mountain Man. Strength... fading...

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
        Trying hard to convince myself you're not just the Dollar Tree Mountain Man. Strength... fading...
        You’re making assertions that don’t answer the question of ‘fair share’ and really make factual errors at that. Just because Amazon made 93.7 billion, in gross profit doesn’t mean it goes into Jeff Bezos pockets. Amazon has to pay taxes on that, reinvest in the business, pay back shareholders, etc. You’re making basic category errors and don’t even get that you’re making them. Amazon is not Jeff Bezos‘ piggy bank. There’s no conversation to be had because you’ve been listening to propaganda and not from financial experts.
        "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
        GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
          You’re making assertions that don’t answer the question of ‘fair share’ and really make factual errors at that. Just because Amazon made 93.7 billion, in gross profit doesn’t mean it goes into Jeff Bezos pockets. Amazon has to pay taxes on that, reinvest in the business, pay back shareholders, etc. You’re making basic category errors and don’t even get that you’re making them. Amazon is not Jeff Bezos‘ piggy bank. There’s no conversation to be had because you’ve been listening to propaganda and not from financial experts.
          Here's Fox Business giving that number.


          Bezos added $78.5 billion to his bottom line this year. After crunching the numbers, Kroll said that it adds up to about $215 million a day. What’s more, the e-commerce behemoth only owns roughly 16 percent of Amazon, according to an August regulatory filing. In September, it became the second U.S. company to reach the $1 trillion milestone, following Apple.


          Now have a blessed day.

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
            Here's Fox Business giving that number.


            Bezos added $78.5 billion to his bottom line this year. After crunching the numbers, Kroll said that it adds up to about $215 million a day. What’s more, the e-commerce behemoth only owns roughly 16 percent of Amazon, according to an August regulatory filing. In September, it became the second U.S. company to reach the $1 trillion milestone, following Apple.


            Now have a blessed day.
            As I said, that doesn’t mean he can go and pull out a few billion whenever he feels like it. Much of that net worth is tied into Amazon, again, just because his shares are worth billions, doesn’t mean he had billions sitting around.
            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
              As I said, that doesn’t mean he can go and pull out a few billion whenever he feels like it. Much of that net worth is tied into Amazon, again, just because his shares are worth billions, doesn’t mean he had billions sitting around.

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
                I see you’re still not getting it, so let me help you:

                If Amazon lost 20% of its value, over the next month, what happens to Jeff Bezos’s net worth?
                "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                  I see you’re still not getting it, so let me help you:

                  If Amazon lost 20% of its value, over the next month, what happens to Jeff Bezos’s net worth?
                  It goes down proportional to the amount of his net worth which is tied up in Amazon stock.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
                    It goes down proportional to the amount of his net worth which is tied up in Amazon stock.
                    So could he pull a few billion out or is much of his wealth tied up in Amazon?
                    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                      So could he pull a few billion out or is much of his wealth tied up in Amazon?
                      I assume has plenty of cash on hand. But sure, assume he has none and would have to sell some stock in exchange for cash. So?
                      Last edited by DivineOb; 01-13-2020, 11:19 PM.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                        You’re making assertions that don’t answer the question of ‘fair share’ and really make factual errors at that. Just because Amazon made 93.7 billion, in gross profit doesn’t mean it goes into Jeff Bezos pockets. Amazon has to pay taxes on that, reinvest in the business, pay back shareholders, etc. You’re making basic category errors and don’t even get that you’re making them. Amazon is not Jeff Bezos‘ piggy bank. There’s no conversation to be had because you’ve been listening to propaganda and not from financial experts.
                        What is a fair share is what our elected representatives decide is a fair share. That's why we elect them, they represent us, all of us, including the very wealthy.
                        Last edited by JimL; 01-13-2020, 11:17 PM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                          As I said, that doesn’t mean he can go and pull out a few billion whenever he feels like it. Much of that net worth is tied into Amazon, again, just because his shares are worth billions, doesn’t mean he had billions sitting around.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            That used to be something that the left also believed in, and it wasn't even conservatives who came up with it. Or even an American.

                            That phrase actually has an interesting history that few today realize:
                            The context was that far from establishing “Justice, domestic Tranquility, and general Welfare” as per the Constitution, the US has the highest rates of violence, incarceration and social inequity of any country in the free world. This is NOT 'American exceptionalism' as usually understood.
                            “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
                              I assume has plenty of cash on hand. But sure, assume he has none and would have to sell some stock in exchange for cash. So?
                              I’m sure he has more cash on hand, but you’re missing that there’s a difference between net worth, liquid net worth, and income. They are not all the same thing.
                              "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                              GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                                What is a fair share is what our elected representatives decide is a fair share. That's why we elect them, they represent us, all of us, including the very wealthy.
                                That’s a nice circular argument.
                                "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                                GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                                Comment

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