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Thread: The blue-state exodus gains momentum

  1. #121
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    I bet that doesn't make the front line people very happy. Of course a lot of fast food restaurants pay more than min wage. I think McD's starts at $9 something.

    In-and-Out seems to pay around $13/hour for their workers though.

  2. #122
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DivineOb View Post
    If people can accumulate wealth in the order > $100 billion of dollars tax free then that sounds like bug, not a feature (don't @ me about capital gains taxes, I know how this stuff works). I pay my fair share of taxes *now*. Am I glad I can make money "for free" by holding the stock I've been granted and then only pay 15% when I sell it down the line? Sure, I make out like a bandit that way. But if someone who doesn't work a job who gets stock grants asked me to justify it as fair I'd admit that I can't.
    That is an opinion and you know what they say about opinions. ‘Fair’ is a subjective term that means a lot of things to a lot of people. It’s not like the old days where you had to go through a lot of steps to buy and sell stocks anymore. You just need a computer, an account, and some reading material and you too can invest.

    Serious question: Why are you so interested in defending people who make more money than you would in 1000+ lifetimes? They have advantages which we could only dream of having. They can ask for a phone call with the president *and get one*! I'm not talking about being fair to people who make as much as me or 10x as much as me. I'm talking someone who makes far more than 100x (it's much more than that but I don't want to out my salary) wha I make in a year in just *one hour*.
    Because I’m not jealous over other people’s success and I care about facts and figures. Jeff Bezos built up Amazon from a small book seller to one of the largest retailer, in the world. Do you think that was an easy thing to do? I don’t and if he has 100 billion+ in net worth, so what? Why are you so jealous?

    Look at my chart again. The 400 richest individuals are paying lower taxes than every other group and lower taxes than at any time in the past 70 years! If you can't intuitively see that that is unjust to the rest of us who actually have to compromise our standard of living to pay the taxes we owe then there's nothing I can say which will change your mind.
    And whose fault is that? Go look up how these CEO’s get paid. Did you know Jeff Bezos only gets a little over 86,000, per year? He gets around 1.6 million in security and travel expenses and owns two other business, but the bulk of his wealth is from his 80 million shares of Amazon stock. Don’t you see the problem? Your obsession with ‘fair share’ has changed up the game. Instead of paying huge salaries and big bonuses, they changed the game with stock options and company ownership. The same thing you admitted to doing above, just on a bigger scale. You change the rules, you will pay more too. As for your ‘standard of living’ claim, our standard of living is a lot better than 70 years ago, so your claim seems well... questionable here too.

    If I gave you $1 billion and asked you to spend it over your life without giving anything to charity or church can you even envision how you would do that? I have a good imagination and I can't even start to figure out what I'd do.
    And that’s relevant, why?
    Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 01-14-2020 at 12:14 PM.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  3. #123
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DivineOb View Post
    Do you agree we should index the minimum wage to cost of living / inflation? If not, what, in your mind, is the purpose of a minimum wage? To me the purpose is to allow *everyone* the chance to achieve a minimum acceptable standard of living, even those who don't have more valuable skills. Do you see things differently?
    I haven’t made min wage, since I was a teenager. In fact, only 2.3% of workers make the federal min wage or below.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  4. #124
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    I bet that doesn't make the front line people very happy. Of course a lot of fast food restaurants pay more than min wage. I think McD's starts at $9 something.

    In-and-Out seems to pay around $13/hour for their workers though.
    And it's something to which front line people can aspire.

    A friend of mine owns THREE McDondald's restaurants, and he started off stumbling into the bus station's McDondald's in Houston --- he complained about the crappy breakfast they cooked, and the manager asked him "you think you can do better"? He took off his coat and said, "show me the kitchen!"
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  5. Amen Teallaura amen'd this post.
  6. #125
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    I haven’t made min wage, since I was a teenager. In fact, only 2.3% of workers make the federal min wage or below.
    Yeah, but don't you get snazzy clothes to wear?



    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  7. #126
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    That is an opinion and you know what they say about opinions. ‘Fair’ is a subjective term that means a lot of things to a lot of people. It’s not like the old days where you had to go through a lot of steps to buy and sell stocks anymore. You just need a computer, an account, and some reading material and you too can invest.
    Would it be "fair" if we reduced taxes on the richest 400 to 0%? If not, why not?


    Because I’m not jealous over other people’s success and I care about facts and figures. Jeff Bezos built up Amazon from a small book seller to one of the largest retailer, in the world. Do you think that was an easy thing to do? I don’t and if he has 100 billion+ in net worth, so what? Why are you so jealous?
    It's not jealousy, sweetheart. Get out of here with that kind of stuff. I think it's great that he's as rich as he is. I just want him to cover the expenses for the services he derives.

    It costs we taxpayers far more to protect his assets than it costs to protect mine. He benefits far more from having a healthy and educated workforce than I do. Yet I'm paying far more of my income to pay for those services than he's paying (again, I know how stocks work). And when he sells his shares he will continue to pay a lower fraction of his income than I am paying. That's *not fair*.

    Do you agree that, when he ultimately takes a dollar and spends it on something, he should have paid at least as much taxes to get that dollar as I have to pay to get a dollar?


    And whose fault is that?
    It's the fault of the politicians who lowered the tax rates that low. Why did they do that? Could it have anything to do with the tons of discretionary money the ultra rich have to throw at and distort our political system? How many politicians have you donated $2700 to?

    Go look up how these CEO’s get paid. Did you know Jeff Bezos only gets a little over 86,000, per year? He gets around 1.6 million in security and travel expenses and owns two other business, but the bulk of his wealth is from his 80 million shares of Amazon stock.
    I'm done telling you that I understand how these things work, dear.


    Don’t you see the problem? Your obsession with ‘fair share’ has changed up the game. Instead of paying huge salaries and big bonuses, they changed the game with stock options and company ownership. The same thing you admitted to doing above, just on a bigger scale. You change the rules, you will pay more too.
    I'll gladly wear the "obsessed with 'fair share'" as a badge of honor. Who wouldn't? You I guess?

    I consistently vote for tax increases which affect me (on CA ballot measures). The ACA doesn't benefit me directly and never will because I have always gotten excellent health insurance through my employer. Yet it filled me with joy and pride when we finally took that step for the country even though it hit me directly.

    Let's change the rules for *everyone* so we can provide for *everyone*. I'm not a "I got mine" type of person.


    And that’s relevant, why?
    Because I'm trying to understand why you care so much about people who have so much money! The rich will do everything they can to reduce their tax burden, they don't need help from people just struggling to get by!

  8. #127
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Yeah, but don't you get snazzy clothes to wear?



    The OCP’s do look better than that dreadful ABU.
    Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 01-14-2020 at 01:11 PM.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  9. Amen Cow Poke amen'd this post.
  10. #128
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DivineOb View Post
    Would it be "fair" if we reduced taxes on the richest 400 to 0%? If not, why not?
    As I said, fair is opinion.

    It's not jealousy, sweetheart. Get out of here with that kind of stuff. I think it's great that he's as rich as he is. I just want him to cover the expenses for the services he derives.
    “I’m not jealous, but I spend a lot of time ranting about how rich he is and he shouldn’t be allowed to have that much!”

    Call it what you want, but that is just what it sounds like.

    It costs we taxpayers far more to protect his assets than it costs to protect mine. He benefits far more from having a healthy and educated workforce than I do. Yet I'm paying far more of my income to pay for those services than he's paying (again, I know how stocks work). And when he sells his shares he will continue to pay a lower fraction of his income than I am paying. That's *not fair*.
    That’s a stupid argument that should get you laughed at. Do you benefit from technology developments? Do you benefit from an educated workforce? We all benefit and how much you think he benefits, is, yet again, a subjective opinion. An educated workforce benefits us all, not just the ultra rich.

    Do you agree that, when he ultimately takes a dollar and spends it on something, he should have paid at least as much taxes to get that dollar as I have to pay to get a dollar?
    Why? Do you have a reason I should care?

    It's the fault of the politicians who lowered the tax rates that low. Why did they do that? Could it have anything to do with the tons of discretionary money the ultra rich have to throw at and distort our political system? How many politicians have you donated $2700 to?
    What is our tax rates compared to the rest of the world? Are they competitive?

    I'm done telling you that I understand how these things work, dear.
    And yet you act oblivious to how the rules work.

    I'll gladly wear the "obsessed with 'fair share'" as a badge of honor. Who wouldn't? You I guess?
    You haven’t produced an objective fact to what a ‘fair share’ is, beyond your subjective opinion.

    I consistently vote for tax increases which affect me (on CA ballot measures). The ACA doesn't benefit me directly and never will because I have always gotten excellent health insurance through my employer. Yet it filled me with joy and pride when we finally took that step for the country even though it hit me directly.
    The ACA made health insurance more expensive and canceled millions of people’s health plans.

    Let's change the rules for *everyone* so we can provide for *everyone*. I'm not a "I got mine" type of person.
    Or you use the tools you have to figure out how to earn more vs depending on others to provide your needs.

    Because I'm trying to understand why you care so much about people who have so much money! The rich will do everything they can to reduce their tax burden, they don't need help from people just struggling to get by!
    Because I care about facts and not subjective opinions. Change the rules, you change the game. What do you not understand about that?
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  11. #129
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    As I said, fair is opinion.
    If you aren't going to answer direct questions I'm not going to waste any more time with you.

  12. #130
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DivineOb View Post
    If you aren't going to answer direct questions I'm not going to waste any more time with you.
    I answered it, not my problem you don’t like the answer. Income taxes, are an invention of the progressive era and originally, nobody paid income taxes and income taxes were only 7% on the wealthy when they were first created. What does that tell you?
    Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 01-14-2020 at 01:10 PM.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

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