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Thread: The blue-state exodus gains momentum

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    So then, how do you define it?
    So glad you asked. Something along these lines


    "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

  2. Amen Tassman amen'd this post.
  3. #32
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DivineOb View Post
    My link speaks for itself. The animation is less than 10 seconds long.
    Which doesnít answer what I asked, so how did you arrive at this opinion?
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  4. #33
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DivineOb View Post
    So glad you asked. Something along these lines


    "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
    In your mind that equates to redistribution of wealth?

    You do understand that is NOT what they meant by welfare, right?

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    The thing is, they are also leaving their bubble. The question is will they continue to vote that way over time - the answer is probably not.

    Except the ones moving to Austin, obviously...
    If more leftist progressive loonies with impossible and unattainable policy proposals vie for the democratic nominee, they'll likely switch.
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

  6. Amen Teallaura amen'd this post.
  7. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    Which doesnít answer what I asked, so how did you arrive at this opinion?
    I don't know how to precisely define "the rich". I hope we can agree that once someone attains a net worth in the 10s of millions of dollars most of the concerns and struggles of "the middle class" stop being something which affects you. Is the line drawn at 5 million? 15 million? I don't know.

    How much should they pay? Enough so that we can fund the government and provide the essential services we expect the government to provide. If a person wants to live in a hellhole like Liberia then probably the tax rates of this country would be considered too high. If you want to live in a country which provides more then perhaps the rich aren't taxed enough.

    I reached this conclusion after considering the 'veil of ignorance' experiment. That experiment asks a simple question -- in which country would you want to be born if you had an equal, random chance of being born as any individual. Would you be willing to be born in Russia in the hopes you'd be one of the lucky ones who have all the wealth? I wouldn't though perhaps some would. Would you prefer to be born into a country with higher taxation but also a much higher floor on the standard of living? I probably would make that choice even though I'd almost certainly have less money than I ended up with in the actual life I got to live.

  8. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    In your mind that equates to redistribution of wealth?

    You do understand that is NOT what they meant by welfare, right?
    Sorry, I thought you were asking me how I define the purpose of government based on your earlier post.

    I don't know how I'd define redistribution of wealth since that's not a term I use. Based on your definition it doesn't sound like a term I am likely to start using either.

  9. #37
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DivineOb View Post
    I don't know how to precisely define "the rich". I hope we can agree that once someone attains a net worth in the 10s of millions of dollars most of the concerns and struggles of "the middle class" stop being something which affects you. Is the line drawn at 5 million? 15 million? I don't know.
    Net worth is misleading because it tells you the amount of owned assets, it doesnít tell you the amount in a checking account. My in laws own a multi million dollar business, but much of their net worth is tied up in their business so they couldnít pull out a million dollars if they desired. They give two dozen people jobs, raising taxes may mean someone loses their job. Just because someone had money doesn¬ít make them a rich fat cat.

    How much should they pay? Enough so that we can fund the government and provide the essential services we expect the government to provide. If a person wants to live in a hellhole like Liberia then probably the tax rates of this country would be considered too high. If you want to live in a country which provides more then perhaps the rich aren't taxed enough.
    Thatís vague. What is and isnít essential?

    I reached this conclusion after considering the 'veil of ignorance' experiment. That experiment asks a simple question -- in which country would you want to be born if you had an equal, random chance of being born as any individual. Would you be willing to be born in Russia in the hopes you'd be one of the lucky ones who have all the wealth? I wouldn't though perhaps some would. Would you prefer to be born into a country with higher taxation but also a much higher floor on the standard of living? I probably would make that choice even though I'd almost certainly have less money than I ended up with in the actual life I got to live.
    Thatís a loaded question because it doesnít answer what I asked. How are you defining too much vs too little taxes? How are you defining rich vs poor? How are you defining essential government service vs unessential? You have quite a bit of opinion, but very little, in terms of hard facts, to define it.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  10. #38
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DivineOb View Post
    I hear conservatives complain about the poorer getting more out than they put in. Isn't that how government is supposed to work? If everyone got back what they put in then then we wouldn't need government and we could just pay for everything ourselves, right? Maybe you can enlighten me.

    Regardless, the rich are clearly not taxed enough.

    I really hate Twitter video for a million reasons, not the least of which is I can't embed them in my messages here. But take a quick look at that animation, it is quite eye opening.
    No, government is not supposed to be Robin Hood. And it's bad for everyone when government thinks otherwise.

    Like most conservatives, I support using government to form a safety net, BUT not a hammock. And we need to reweave the one we have. Politicians are not inclined to fiscal responsibility when their constituents aren't.

    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


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  11. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  12. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    Net worth is misleading because it tells you the amount of owned assets, it doesnít tell you the amount in a checking account. My in laws own a multi million dollar business, but much of their net worth is tied up in their business so they couldnít pull out a million dollars if they desired. They give two dozen people jobs, raising taxes may mean someone loses their job. Just because someone had money doesn¬ít make them a rich fat cat.
    So someone smarter than me can give a more refined definition. The more relevant part is the idea that you become decoupled from the conerns and worries of "the many" which captures my point more clearly.

    I am really puzzled where I wrote "fat cat," though. Maybe you can help me out?


    Thatís vague. What is and isnít essential?
    That's a good question, isn't it? I'm just a computer scientist, not a political one.


    Thatís a loaded question because it doesnít answer what I asked. How are you defining too much vs too little taxes? How are you defining rich vs poor? How are you defining essential government service vs unessential? You have quite a bit of opinion, but very little, in terms of hard facts, to define it.
    Sorry to let you down.

  13. #40
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    No, government is not supposed to be Robin Hood. And it's bad for everyone when government thinks otherwise.

    Like most conservatives, I support using government to form a safety net, BUT not a hammock. And we need to reweave the one we have. Politicians are not inclined to fiscal responsibility when their constituents aren't.
    One thing that everyone seems to forget about Robin Hood was that the "rich" he stole from were the government who seized everyone's money through confiscatory taxes.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

  14. Amen Teallaura, RumTumTugger, Sparko, One Bad Pig amen'd this post.

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