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Thread: The burdensome Christianity?

  1. #51
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Simplicio seems to be the Catholic version of Darfius.

  2. #52
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    Dietrich Bonhoeffer is famous, and notorious, for his description of cheap grace, and he wrote the book cost of discipleship. He saw the faith as costing us, placing the burden of duty and obligation. His point was that some,saw that duty as a burden to be shirked. He saw the burden imposed by Christ as truly liberating.

    https://caffeinatedthoughts.com/2010...-costly-grace/
    Ah. There's good advice from Bonhoeffer. He went against the efforts to conform the church to the socialism ideals and unwavering commitment to the socialist government. I agree with his proper action against that. However, I'm not sure how this fits into your viewpoint.

  3. #53
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    Yes, I am sure that you do not have a cheap grace view which Bonhoeffer condemned.
    So, knowing that, you go into the mud....

    However, your posts in this thread do create the impression you hold the view you claim not to hold.
    Apparently, only in your mind, because you're looking for a fight that's simplicoly not there.

    An approach to Christianity which emphasizes the easy parts while retreating from discussing the difficult parts. I did choose the title The Burdensome Christianity, then listed in the OP Catholic writings which just happen to have Protestant support.
    So, rather than DO the Word of God (be ye doers and not hearers only) you prefer to ARGUE about it - something against which Paul warned Timothy.

    Yes, you do not have a cheap grace view, you merely choose to present the faith here as cheap grace!
    No sir, in order to pick an unnecessary fight with a brother, you choose an interpretation which you supposedly claim to know I do not hold. That's just nutty.

    And, again, the honorable thing would be to ASK, but that appears to be above you.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  4. #54
    tWebber
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    An interesting Amazon review is given by C.L.D. about the The Cost of Discipleship. Here is the key context C.L.D. provides:

    https://www.amazon.com/product-revie...ews-filter-bar
    Bonhoeffer believed that grace is dispensed by an ordained class (the priests of the Lutheran church). This is not uncommon for the old-line denominations (the Roman Catholics, the Lutherans, etc). This is why he wrote about 'cheap grace' as he did. ...If you ignore this, you will not understand what that chapter is about or the book as a whole; this chapter comes very early, so it affects the way you read everything else. It is also a chapter that is read, largely all by itself without considering any of the context.

    . . .
    Many people seem to get behind this book, but I submit to you that they fundamentally misunderstand Bonhoeffer, the book, and what 'cheap grace' meant according to Bonhoeffer. They wind up defining 'cheap grace' any old way they like it, rather than as Bonhoeffer meant it. They wind up choosing a message, and then using this book, specifically this chapter, as their 'proof text'. It is not ethical to do this.
    The rest of the review is interesting.

  5. #55
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    So, knowing that, you go into the mud....



    Apparently, only in your mind, because you're looking for a fight that's simplicoly not there.



    So, rather than DO the Word of God (be ye doers and not hearers only) you prefer to ARGUE about it - something against which Paul warned Timothy.



    No sir, in order to pick an unnecessary fight with a brother, you choose an interpretation which you supposedly claim to know I do not hold. That's just nutty.

    And, again, the honorable thing would be to ASK, but that appears to be above you.
    How do your posts not conform to the cheap grace?

  6. #56
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    How do your posts not conform to the cheap grace?
    I guess if you stand on your head and squint real hard and ignore truth, and put an incredibly prejudicial spin on it, you might see it that way.

    If you want to know, do the honorable Christian thing and ASK - don't assume.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  7. #57
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    I guess if you stand on your head and squint real hard and ignore truth, and put an incredibly prejudicial spin on it, you might see it that way.

    If you want to know, do the honorable Christian thing and ASK - don't assume.
    This section of the thread, on cheap grace, has been an invitation for Christians to present their views. And on several occasions you chose, uncoerced, to write what you wrote.

    Spin is not needed. Assumptions are not needed. What is needed is to read the thread, then compare the responses to Bonhoeffer's writing.

  8. #58
    tWebber demi-conservative's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    Spin is not needed
    says the guy furiously spinning.

    Sad!
    I can't help but perversely root for Bloomberg simply because he doesn't even try to pretend we live in a serious country or a serious democracy and treats it and the process with the cynical contempt it deserves.

  9. #59
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    This section of the thread, on cheap grace, has been an invitation for Christians to present their views.
    An "invitation", eh? Not a "strap them down and force them to tell all they know"? Good, I'm relieved.

    And on several occasions you chose, uncoerced, to write what you wrote.
    I did. And, somehow, you extracted from that that I am somehow advocating or defending "free grace"? I think you had to work at that.

    Spin is not needed. Assumptions are not needed. What is needed is to read the thread, then compare the responses to Bonhoeffer's writing.
    Gimme your best example of where, in this thread or ANYWHERE, I advocated or defended "free grace", k?

    I'll wait.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  10. #60
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    An "invitation", eh? Not a "strap them down and force them to tell all they know"? Good, I'm relieved.



    I did. And, somehow, you extracted from that that I am somehow advocating or defending "free grace"? I think you had to work at that.



    Gimme your best example of where, in this thread or ANYWHERE, I advocated or defended "free grace", k?

    I'll wait.
    Heck,Simplicio doesn't even need us to post in this thread, he can argue both sides himself with strawman arguments.

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