Originally posted by Cow Poke
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The conspiracy to harm Marie Yovanovitch
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Originally posted by JimL View PostWhat you call a premise is a fact. The foriegn minister said: I never met Parnas, and I don't trust a thing he says.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostThat's not the premise I reject.Last edited by JimL; 01-18-2020, 08:26 PM.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostSurveillance of members of the Trump campaign for legitimate reasons is not the same thing as spying on Trump.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostWhatever it is you object to, the fact of the matter is that Lev Parnas' accusations are corroborated by documentary evidence, so whatever the foreign ministers reason, for saying, "I don't trust a thing he says" is moot, and the reason for his saying it, in question.
Originally posted by JimL View Post....a man who knows nothing at all about another man ...
Can you substantiate that? Cause you frequently just toss out speculation as though it were fact. It's not at all unusual for you to set up some goofy premise, then come to a conclusion based on that false premise.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostHere's the part of your premise I don't accept....
Can you substantiate that? Cause you frequently just toss out speculation as though it were fact. It's not at all unusual for you to set up some goofy premise, then come to a conclusion based on that false premise.
Okay, so if he doesn't know him personally, never met with him, never talked to him, then his reasons for not trusting a word he says, has nothing to do with Parnas himself. That leaves one wondering why he so vehemently mistrusts this man he doesn't know. Obvious reasons are that he is covering up what he does know, or what he himself may have been in on, or he wants to keep good relations between his country and the Trump Administration.
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See, here's the problem, Jim... when you said "who I have absolutely no knowledge of" - - I strongly suspected you were telling a big 'un. Here is your claim....
Originally posted by JimL View PostRight, that's because being neutral is not in the foriegn ministers or Ukraines best interests, but saying, "I don't believe a word the man, (who I have absolutely no knowledge of) says" is.
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostIn your version.
Originally posted by JimL View PostWell, let's hear your version as to why a man who knows nothing at all about another man says, "I don't believe a word he has to say?"
Then you provide an alleged actual quote (as usual, without any cite, but I managed to find it) and it's different....
Originally posted by JimL View PostHere is his quote: "I understand that this individual, which I don't know personally, is trying to save his own case, and I again, I don't trust what he is saying.A) "which I don't know personally", (apparently the actual quote) and
2) "who I have absolutely no knowledge of" - your Jimminized version.Okay, so if he doesn't know him personally,
That's what he said, but then you go on to add....
never met with him, never talked to him
and even added
who I have absolutely no knowledge of
I KNEW you were being deceptive, which is why I couldn't accept your premise. You seem absolutely incapable of telling the truth the first time.
It's like I have to beat it out of you. Sheeeeesh!!!!! Use ACTUAL QUOTE function or ACTUAL CITES, because simply cannot be trusted to give an honest report.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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The video can be watched here and I'd recommend watching the full interview before spending too much more time on this tangent. Prystaiko's claim is not merely that he doesn't have a personal relationship with Parnas but -- as a close personal adviser to Zelensky and now the Foreign Minister -- he was never approached by Parnas or other "unofficial channel" characters about a quid pro quo.
That's newsworthy -- but Amanpour does the right journalism when she brings up Giuliani, Sondland and others approaching other Ukrainian officials. Here, Prystaiko doesn't deny that happened but positions himself as someone who reiterated the need for Zelensky not to be caught up in US affairs and maintain a straight formal channel of diplomacy. This is tacit acknowledgement of what's already heavily evidenced from documentary and testimonial evidence and renders Prystaiko's interview null -- it doesn't advance any new facts that support or contradict Parnas' claims or the larger set of claims around Trump's impeachment.
--Sam"I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
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The fence-sitting is obvious throughout the interview but, in case people need further elaboration, Prystaiko became foreign minister on August 29, 2019 -- after the whistleblower complaint and shortly before the implosion of Trump's quid pro quo demands. Before then, he was head of the Mission of Ukraine to NATO, which does not seem a likely target for the "irregular channel" actors.
--Sam"I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
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For the record, Sondland's claim that he offered a quid pro quo is denied by the guy Sondland supposedly spoke with.
A top aide to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is refuting U.S. Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland’s testimony in the impeachment inquiry against President Trump.
Sondland last month testified before a House committee that he told Zelensky's aide that the U.S. would not resume foreign aid until the country announced two investigations into Trump political rivals; however, the aide, Andriy Yermak, told Time in an interview published Tuesday that the conversation never happened.
“Gordon and I were never alone together,” Yermak told Time.
"We bumped into each other in the hallway next to the escalator, as I was walking out,” he continued, adding that several members of the American and Ukrainian delegations, bodyguards and hotel staff were nearby. “And I remember — everything is fine with my memory — we talked about how well the meeting went. That’s all we talked about."
https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...land-testimonySome may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostFor the record, Sondland's claim that he offered a quid pro quo is denied by the guy Sondland supposedly spoke with.
A top aide to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is refuting U.S. Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland’s testimony in the impeachment inquiry against President Trump.
Sondland last month testified before a House committee that he told Zelensky's aide that the U.S. would not resume foreign aid until the country announced two investigations into Trump political rivals; however, the aide, Andriy Yermak, told Time in an interview published Tuesday that the conversation never happened.
“Gordon and I were never alone together,” Yermak told Time.
"We bumped into each other in the hallway next to the escalator, as I was walking out,” he continued, adding that several members of the American and Ukrainian delegations, bodyguards and hotel staff were nearby. “And I remember — everything is fine with my memory — we talked about how well the meeting went. That’s all we talked about."
https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...land-testimonyThe first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI thought this was old news. Maybe I'm just having a deja vu.
Contemporaneous account from Taylor, not disputed by Volker.
--Sam"I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
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Not to beat a dead horse any more than necessary but Kent was relating what others had told him as he candidly acknowledged. IOW, hearsay. And often hearsay several times removed.
He testified that his information was not based on first hand knowledge but was based upon what William Taylor (who testified that he had no first hand knowledge) told him and Taylor in turn said he heard it from Tim Morrison (who also testified that he has no first hand knowledge) who in turn got his gossip from Gordon Sondland. So you have Kent testifying about what Taylor said, which was based on what Morrison may or may not have said, based upon what Sondland assumed and guessed.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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