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Thread: The conspiracy to harm Marie Yovanovitch

  1. #161
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Strock (hooked on phonics) and Page were having their extramarital affair (I believe Strock's wife found out about it by looking at his highly classified phone ) was definitely a problem, but I think the complaint was that there were Pro-Trump FBI agents who were texting each other, and they didn't get their hannies swatted.

    I think a big difference would be observing that you approve of somebody (cheering them on?) vs. actually working to STOP somebody.
    A key feature in the IG report and in Strzok's lawsuit is that he never took actions in his duties at the FBI that were improper for the investigations he was conducting. So he didn't "actually work to STOP somebody".

    --Sam
    "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"


  2. #162
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    A key feature in the IG report and in Strzok's lawsuit is that he never took actions in his duties at the FBI that were improper for the investigations he was conducting. So he didn't "actually work to STOP somebody".

    --Sam
    That's debatable, Sam -- there was the matter of the texts between him and Page regarding leaking of information.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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  4. #163
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    That's debatable, Sam -- there was the matter of the texts between him and Page regarding leaking of information.
    Not really debatable, given there was an entire IG investigation and report on the matter.

    I mean, people will still assert it no matter what ... but the evidence of such improper actions remains to be seen.

    --Sam
    "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"


  5. #164
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DivineOb View Post
    That seems like a distinction without a difference in the context of FBI agent behavior where even the appearance of impropriety is the standard.
    And in days when I actively interacted with the FBI (45+ years ago) there was a tremendous emphasis on "the appearance of evil". Since then, the agency has gone downhill significantly.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  6. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    Not really debatable, given there was an entire IG investigation and report on the matter.

    I mean, people will still assert it no matter what ... but the evidence of such improper actions remains to be seen.

    --Sam
    From the FBI's official response to the IG report, contained IN the IG report...

    (forgive the apparent formatting problems - I copy/pasted directly from the source, and didn't want to 'doctor' it for readability out of concern I might accidentally change the intent - bolding mine)

    The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) appreciates the OIU ' s crucial independent oversight role and the thoroughness and professionalism your office brought to this work. The Repor1·s findings and recommendations !'\:present constructive criticism that will make us stronger as an organization. We also appreciate the Report' s recognition that the FBI cooperated fully wilh this review and provided broad and timely access to all information requested by the OIG, including highly classified and sensitive material involving national security . The Report concludes that the FBl' s Crossfire Hurricane investigation and related investigations of cL'T1llin individuals were opened in 2016 for an authorized purpose and with adequate factual predication. The Report also details instances in which certain FBI personnel. at t imes during the 2016-2017 period reviewed by the OJG, did oot comply with existing policies. neglected to exercise appropriate diligence. or otherwise failed to meet the standard o f conduct that the FBI expects of i\5 employees -and that our country expects of the FBI. We are vested with significant authorities. and it is our obligation as public servants to ensure that these authorities are exercised with objectivity and integrity. Anything less falls short of the FBI's duty to the American people......


    There were a lot of screw-ups significant enough to warrant reforms.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  7. #166
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    Politics. A personal affair, to my knowledge, would not be sufficient grounds to fire Strzok, nor do I believe it factored into DOJ's rationale for his termination. The IG report, finding no proof of bias affecting the FBI investigation of Trump associates and the campaign, uncovered similarly improper texts from other FBI agents -- these discussing volunteering for an investigation into the Clinton Foundation, cheering Trump's election, and implying that anti-Trump personnel would have to be out looking for new jobs.

    --Sam
    The massive difference is he was actually working the case directly related to his bias. Were those pro-Trump agents involved in any way on a case against Hillary?
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

  8. #167
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Strock (hooked on phonics) and Page were having their extramarital affair (I believe Strock's wife found out about it by looking at his highly classified phone ) was definitely a problem, but I think the complaint was that there were Pro-Trump FBI agents who were texting each other, and they didn't get their hannies swatted.

    I think a big difference would be observing that you approve of somebody (cheering them on?) vs. actually working to STOP somebody.
    I still think the affair was a cover story for why they were talking so openly about the infamous "insurance policy", because there's nothing in the texts I've seen that suggests anything other than a professional relationship. Nothing like "I had a great time with you last night" or similar (unless all those were redacted?).
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  9. #168
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    From the FBI's official response to the IG report, contained IN the IG report...

    (forgive the apparent formatting problems - I copy/pasted directly from the source, and didn't want to 'doctor' it for readability out of concern I might accidentally change the intent - bolding mine)

    The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) appreciates the OIU ' s crucial independent oversight role and the thoroughness and professionalism your office brought to this work. The Repor1·s findings and recommendations !'\:present constructive criticism that will make us stronger as an organization. We also appreciate the Report' s recognition that the FBI cooperated fully wilh this review and provided broad and timely access to all information requested by the OIG, including highly classified and sensitive material involving national security . The Report concludes that the FBl' s Crossfire Hurricane investigation and related investigations of cL'T1llin individuals were opened in 2016 for an authorized purpose and with adequate factual predication. The Report also details instances in which certain FBI personnel. at t imes during the 2016-2017 period reviewed by the OJG, did oot comply with existing policies. neglected to exercise appropriate diligence. or otherwise failed to meet the standard o f conduct that the FBI expects of i\5 employees -and that our country expects of the FBI. We are vested with significant authorities. and it is our obligation as public servants to ensure that these authorities are exercised with objectivity and integrity. Anything less falls short of the FBI's duty to the American people......


    There were a lot of screw-ups significant enough to warrant reforms.
    The question we were working off of, as I understand it, was whether Stzrok took improper steps in his investigative capacity to "stop" Trump from being elected president. There is no argument that FBI practices could benefit from reforms or that personnel acted to the ethical standard of the FBI.

    --Sam
    "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"


  10. #169
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanD View Post
    The massive difference is he was actually working the case directly related to his bias. Were those pro-Trump agents involved in any way on a case against Hillary?
    That's a difference but not a massive difference when it comes to disciplinary action for improper conduct, given no actual professional malfeasance was found. And if those agents were not disciplined at all while Stzrok was disciplined beyond his superiors' recommendations, he's got a decent case.

    --Sam
    "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"


  11. #170
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    I still think the affair was a cover story for why they were talking so openly about the infamous "insurance policy", because there's nothing in the texts I've seen that suggests anything other than a professional relationship. Nothing like "I had a great time with you last night" or similar (unless all those were redacted?).
    The DOJ would have had to been complicit, MM....

    Peter Strzok’s wife discovered Lisa Page affair on his phone, DOJ reveals

    Former FBI special agent Peter Strzok’s wife discovered his affair with FBI lawyer Lisa Page on his phone in 2017, the Justice Department revealed in its response to his claims he was wrongfully fired.

    The department filed a 151-page motion to dismiss the wrongful termination lawsuit Strzok filed in August, with the DOJ arguing Strzok betrayed the trust placed in him as a leader at the FBI as he helped lead high-profile investigations related to Hillary Clinton’s illicit private email server and any connections between the Trump campaign and Russia.

    Strzok’s affair with Page was cited in a newly public 26-page letter sent by the FBI’s Candice Will, assistant director at the Office of Professional Responsibility, to Strzok in August 2018, attached as an exhibit to the DOJ’s filing. Will recommended Strzok be demoted and suspended for 60 days without pay, but FBI Deputy Director David Bowdich overruled her. The FBI fired Strzok the next day.

    Will harshly criticized, among many things, the hundreds of Strzok-Page texts showing political bias against Trump and in favor of Clinton.

    “The lapses in judgment embodied in those messages and others like them risked undermining public confidence in two of the Bureau’s highest-profile investigations,” the DOJ told the court on Monday. “And even more broadly, those lapses in judgment risked damaging the public trust in the FBI as a nonpartisan, even-handed, and effective law enforcement institution — trust that is essential to the FBI’s ability to vigorously enforce the nation’s laws without fear or favor.”

    Those texts “cast a pall over the FBI’s Clinton email and Russia investigations and the work of the special counsel,” Will wrote. Strzok was removed from Mueller’s team in 2017 because of the texts.

    Will also noted “security violations” stemming from Strzok and Page using personal devices to conduct FBI business, which Will noted was “replete with irony given the FBI’s criticism of Clinton for having done so.”

    She also cited “dereliction of supervisory responsibility” by Strzok in prioritizing the Trump-Russia investigation over the Clinton investigation and his slow-walking of the review of Clinton aide Huma Abedin’s emails found in late September 2016 on the laptop of her husband, disgraced former New York Rep. Anthony Weiner.

    “Your inaction contributed to a substantial investigative error and significantly tarnished the integrity of the bureau,” Will told Strzok.


    There are even a few morsels in there for Sam.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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