Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

The conspiracy to harm Marie Yovanovitch

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #91
    Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
    Why get bent out of shape about name-calling? Jesus had no problem labeling people as nests of snakes and white-washed tombs.
    Jesus wan't 'name calling' in the sense that takes place here. He was giving an accurate description of the moral hypocrisy of those same people in 'colorful terms'. These were not gratuitous insults, or attempts at revenge, or hyperbolic exaggeration. He was describing exactly who they were in the most effective and efficient means of doing so - without malice, without bile, without any driving force other than His own very real and impossible to replicate righteousness.

    Therefore it is in fact hubris to try to equate what happens here with what Christ did when he uttered those words.
    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
      There is no hypocrisy in pointing out that Donald Trumps FBI investigation was warranted and this attack on Yavanovich by Guilliani et al was not.

      Neither is there hypocrisy in noting that is IS foolish to think that the sorts of associations Donald Trump has with nefarious Russian figures should not have been investigated in the interest of national security.

      Neither is it self-righteous to appeal to that which is universally known to be right and good and to hold that up as a standard for all.

      However, what is truly hypocritical is to say one wants to follow the King of Truth and yet to vigorously denigrate those that point out the difference between what is being done and what is truth, or right, or good.


      Quit it with the cry-bully schtick already. When people disagree with you on the facts, or on the interpretation of the facts, you are quite happy to attack them as immoral, not following Jesus, or 'fools'. And you - as you have done above - paint them as 'denigrating' you, when they are disagreeing with your views, and no more than that.

      Then you whine and cry about them responding to your insults with insults of their own, all the while pretending like you're the only one really following Jesus, 'cause it's wrong to insult people, and your pet political views are the only ones a true Christian could have. That's hypocritical.

      If it's wrong to insult people - 'cause you're 'following the King of Truth', then you should be the first to stop insulting people.
      ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
        Jesus wan't 'name calling' in the sense that takes place here. He was giving an accurate description of the moral hypocrisy of those same people in 'colorful terms'. These were not gratuitous insults, or attempts at revenge, or hyperbolic exaggeration. He was describing exactly who they were in the most effective and efficient means of doing so - without malice, without bile, without any driving force other than His own very real and impossible to replicate righteousness.

        Therefore it is in fact hubris to try to equate what happens here with what Christ did when he uttered those words.

        So you accept that you were wrong to call people here "fools".
        ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
          Sorry to bring up an old topic. Everyone decided to discus everything other than what this thread was supposed to be about :).
          You sort of invited that.
          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
          sigpic
          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
            Quit it with the cry-bully schtick already. When people disagree with you on the facts, or on the interpretation of the facts, you are quite happy to attack them as immoral, not following Jesus, or 'fools'. And you - as you have done above - paint them as 'denigrating' you, when they are disagreeing with your views, and no more than that.

            Then you whine and cry about them responding to your insults with insults of their own, all the while pretending like you're the only one really following Jesus, 'cause it's wrong to insult people, and your pet political views are the only ones a true Christian could have. That's hypocritical.

            If it's wrong to insult people - 'cause you're 'following the King of Truth', then you should be the first to stop insulting people.
            Nothing said in this thread to me has anything to do with a disagreement over the facts.

            I understand that saying people are being fools is insulting. But it is also the truth. Unfortunately, when people are being dog stupid but also have their fingers in their ears and are not listening, sometimes one has no choice but to shout.
            My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

            If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

            This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
              So you accept that you were wrong to call people here "fools".
              If I had used the term in anger or for revenge I would have been wrong - yes.

              But that was not the reason I did it. The brain dead refusal to understand that you MUST investigate anyone that will be exposed to national secrets with the sort of associations Trump has is simply being a fool. It is foolish to accept that there was something wrong with investigating the Red Flags Trump was raising and is raising.

              The mistake you make is in assuming I was calling them fools in some rant of anger, or some attempt at revenge. I am calling them fools because they are being foolish and because they will not listen to a more civil terminology for what they are doing.
              Last edited by oxmixmudd; 01-16-2020, 08:11 AM.
              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                unpredictable you are not.
                It's easy to be consistent when one is grounded in the truth.
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  It's easy to be consistent when one is grounded in the truth.
                  It is also easy to be 'consistent' when one has a limited vocabulary
                  My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                  If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                  This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    Yes, Jim, I'm aware. That was just a bit of humor. You know, like when kids are fighting? Humor, Jim.
                    You keep working on that - ok? Just don't quit you're 'day job' any time soon.
                    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                      If I had used the term in anger or for revenge I would have been wrong - yes.

                      But that was not the reason I did it. The brain dead refusal to understand that you MUST investigate anyone that will be exposed to national secrets with the sort of associations Trump has is simply being a fool. It is foolish to accept that there was something wrong with investigating the Red Flags Trump was raising and is raising.

                      The mistake you make is in assuming I was calling them fools in some rant of anger, or some attempt at revenge. I am calling them fools because they are being foolish and because they will not listen to a more civil terminology for what they are doing.


                      Originally posted by oxmixmudd
                      Jesus wan't 'name calling' in the sense that takes place here. He was giving an accurate description of the moral hypocrisy of those same people in 'colorful terms'. These were not gratuitous insults, or attempts at revenge, or hyperbolic exaggeration. He was describing exactly who they were in the most effective and efficient means of doing so - without malice, without bile, without any driving force other than His own very real and impossible to replicate righteousness.
                      (1) So when you called people 'fools', you somehow managed to replicate Jesus' impossible to replicate righteousness?

                      I don't buy the 'Jesus used challenge-riposte rhetoric' argument that MM and LPOT have offered in the past as justification for their name-calling, and I don't buy your attempt at it either.

                      (2) Your justification for doing something only Jesus is undoubtedly justified in is that your political views are correct, and people who disagree are acting immorally and supporting an evil. That depends on you not being wrong about anything - good luck with that - no-one gets it all 100%.

                      It also assumes a lot, and people who see things differently from you, or don't have the same information you have, or simply don't accept some of the data points that you accept (for example Sam appears to disagree with you on the weight on the Lev Parnas interview thing) aren't going to reach the conclusions you do. But you're going to call them 'fools' and accuse them of supporting evil, not following Jesus, etc. It's what you've been doing pretty much since you started posting in Civics, AFAICT. And it's wrong, and it's dangerous, since if you are wrong about even some small points, the justification you appeal to for attacking others is down the drain.


                      (3) You assume that your case against Trump is watertight, and people who don't see it your way are wrong. That's hubris, bro.

                      That they won't listen to you because they are stupid - that's just not true (in most cases), or uniformed, or just prejudiced and unwilling to change (not true either, in most cases).

                      Do you think insulting people will get them to listen to you? Do you listen to MM, or LPOT, or other posters who you feel insult you? I bet you don't, so why do you think they would listen to you because you have insulted them.


                      (4) It's not your job to fight for Jesus and righteousness by convincing people to agree with your take on politics on TWeb. This is a discussion board, bro. It's not a church, with you as God's prophet, calling people to return to righteousness. Get over yourself already.
                      ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
                        Quit it with the cry-bully schtick already. When people disagree with you on the facts, or on the interpretation of the facts, you are quite happy to attack them as immoral, not following Jesus, or 'fools'. And you - as you have done above - paint them as 'denigrating' you, when they are disagreeing with your views, and no more than that.

                        Then you whine and cry about them responding to your insults with insults of their own, all the while pretending like you're the only one really following Jesus, 'cause it's wrong to insult people, and your pet political views are the only ones a true Christian could have. That's hypocritical.

                        If it's wrong to insult people - 'cause you're 'following the King of Truth', then you should be the first to stop insulting people.
                        Amen.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          Amen.
                          You never, ever look in a mirror, do you
                          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                            You never, ever look in a mirror, do you
                            Actually, I do, Jim. Do you actually have a point?
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
                              Do you think insulting people will get them to listen to you? Do you listen to MM, or LPOT, or other posters who you feel insult you? I bet you don't, so why do you think they would listen to you because you have insulted them.
                              I want to respond to this: the point of insults used in this fashion is not necessarily o compel someone to listen to you but to publicly dishonor them so that other people will be dissuaded from listening to them. Let's put it this way: do you think Jesus' use of challenge/riposte was for the benefit of the Pharisees, or for their followers who were closely watching the debate?
                              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                              Than a fool in the eyes of God


                              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                                I want to respond to this: the point of insults used in this fashion is not necessarily o compel someone to listen to you but to publicly dishonor them so that other people will be dissuaded from listening to them. Let's put it this way: do you think Jesus' use of challenge/riposte was for the benefit of the Pharisees, or for their followers who were closely watching the debate?
                                Well, the first part is quite telling. You seemingly want to "publicly dishonor" certain people instead of having a fair discussion. You seemingly do not think your arguments are strong enough, or you want to appeal to those who are not guided by rational thinking. It is a quite low standard for discussion.

                                Since you are not Jesus I fail to see that you are in a postion to do what he sometimes did. I don't think your rightheousness, mandate to judge or actual knowledge about the true motives, hearts and minds of others is at his level according to the Gospel.

                                I agree with William Lane Craig when he says:

                                I think our civil discourse in this country has become very uncharitable. I fully want to agree with him that we need to treat other people with respect and civility. This is why in my debates with atheists and agnostics I always try to treat them with charity and civility and not engage in name-calling or insults or even just interruptions. I think that is uncivil discourse. https://www.reasonablefaith.org/medi...-evangelicals/
                                "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by little_monkey, Yesterday, 04:19 PM
                                7 responses
                                56 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Sparko
                                by Sparko
                                 
                                Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
                                42 responses
                                240 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post whag
                                by whag
                                 
                                Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
                                25 responses
                                106 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
                                33 responses
                                194 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Roy
                                by Roy
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
                                73 responses
                                322 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Hypatia_Alexandria  
                                Working...
                                X