Originally posted by seanD
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Warren vs Sanders
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostI think they are both being sincere.
I tend to presume the discussion was along the lines of whether it would be easier for a man or a woman to beat Trump in 2020. They were both considering running, and would have been talking through which one of them they thought would have a greater chance of winning. Hillary's camp has popularized the notion that sexism was a factor in her loss in 2016 - i.e. that she lost due to being a woman. So it's received wisdom among many pundits that there is a certain level of anti-female bias among US voters and thus that it's harder for a woman to get elected than a man. However, in 2018 a lot of female candidates were elected, with a lot of women voters deliberately voting for women, so some people think the pendulum has swung and perhaps now there's momentum toward electing women. I think reasonable pundits might now reasonably disagree on which effect is stronger. I tend to think that when Warren and Bernie were discussing which of them had better prospects for victory in 2020, that Warren would have suggested that she thought being a woman would play in her favor, and Sanders replied that he thought being a woman would work against her if she was up against Trump in 2020. That is quite a reasonable conversation for them to have been having, and both their positions there are rationally and empirically defensible.
I think over time Warren has gradually misremembered that conversation, and wrongly generalized Bernie's view from the specific and mundane "I don't think being a woman will play to your political advantage against Trump in 2020 in terms of helping you win" to the generalized and abstracted view that borders on the irrational and nonsensical of "I don't think a woman can ever win the US Presidency under any circumstances". What the Warren camp is claiming Bernie said isn't really something that it makes sense for anyone to say. Hillary won the majority of votes in 2016 and it was a fluke they were distributed in such a way that Trump could slip through with the electoral college system. The question of whether a women can win is stupid. Even the worst misogynist in the country knows a woman can win. The only interesting question is whether, right now in 2020, it is easier or harder for a female or a male candidate to win against Trump, and that will have been what they were discussing.
As Obama once told Hillary, "you're likeable enough." But then politicians are notorious liars.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Hillary on Sanders "Nobody wants to work with him" "Nobody Likes Him"The Dem's long knives are out...
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/fe...bernie-1271551Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostI kind of like Yang. Not his politics so much, but him as a person. Seems very open and honest.
..unless it's all a political brainwashing trick!Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by seer View PostHillary on Sanders "Nobody wants to work with him" "Nobody Likes Him"The Dem's long knives are out...
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/fe...bernie-1271551
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Originally posted by seanD View PostShe really did him wrong. Not only did she hint he too was a Russian asset during a Howard Stern interview, but claimed he backstabbed her during the election when he did more promotion for her than anyone else had done for any other candidate probably in the history of American politics. I really hope she jumps into the race just to see her humiliation for the third time before she croaks.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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So it looks like this whole thing has actually been of great benefit to Sanders, as he surged ahead in the most recent poll, essentially tied with Biden:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/22/polit...nal/index.html
Obviously it's just one poll and all, but still notable. Apparently Warren, on the other hand, lost support, meaning people have swapped from supporting him to supporting Sanders instead. If this pattern is continued in new polls, it would indicate this whole thing ended up hurting Warren but helping Sanders.
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Originally posted by Terraceth View PostSo it looks like this whole thing has actually been of great benefit to Sanders, as he surged ahead in the most recent poll, essentially tied with Biden:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/22/polit...nal/index.html
Obviously it's just one poll and all, but still notable. Apparently Warren, on the other hand, lost support, meaning people have swapped from supporting him to supporting Sanders instead. If this pattern is continued in new polls, it would indicate this whole thing ended up hurting Warren but helping Sanders.
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Originally posted by Terraceth View PostSo it looks like this whole thing has actually been of great benefit to Sanders, as he surged ahead in the most recent poll, essentially tied with Biden:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/22/polit...nal/index.html
Obviously it's just one poll and all, but still notable. Apparently Warren, on the other hand, lost support, meaning people have swapped from supporting him to supporting Sanders instead. If this pattern is continued in new polls, it would indicate this whole thing ended up hurting Warren but helping Sanders.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostI'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure that Sanders began to surge past Warren before this incident was public.
Originally posted by seanD View PostBernie's rise is of great benefit to the GOP in 2020.
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Originally posted by Terraceth View PostHe may have already been ahead of Warren, but this is a new surge that puts him on the level of Biden... and at Warren's expense. The most plausible explanation for this, assuming this isn't just an off poll, is that this controversy helped Sanders but hurt Warren.
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