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Warren vs Sanders

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  • #76
    Originally posted by seanD View Post
    progressives dreamed of a Warren/Sanders ticket.
    I personally dreamed of an Andrew Yang ticket. But that's probably first relevant in 2024.

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by Starlight View Post
      I think they are both being sincere.

      I tend to presume the discussion was along the lines of whether it would be easier for a man or a woman to beat Trump in 2020. They were both considering running, and would have been talking through which one of them they thought would have a greater chance of winning. Hillary's camp has popularized the notion that sexism was a factor in her loss in 2016 - i.e. that she lost due to being a woman. So it's received wisdom among many pundits that there is a certain level of anti-female bias among US voters and thus that it's harder for a woman to get elected than a man. However, in 2018 a lot of female candidates were elected, with a lot of women voters deliberately voting for women, so some people think the pendulum has swung and perhaps now there's momentum toward electing women. I think reasonable pundits might now reasonably disagree on which effect is stronger. I tend to think that when Warren and Bernie were discussing which of them had better prospects for victory in 2020, that Warren would have suggested that she thought being a woman would play in her favor, and Sanders replied that he thought being a woman would work against her if she was up against Trump in 2020. That is quite a reasonable conversation for them to have been having, and both their positions there are rationally and empirically defensible.

      I think over time Warren has gradually misremembered that conversation, and wrongly generalized Bernie's view from the specific and mundane "I don't think being a woman will play to your political advantage against Trump in 2020 in terms of helping you win" to the generalized and abstracted view that borders on the irrational and nonsensical of "I don't think a woman can ever win the US Presidency under any circumstances". What the Warren camp is claiming Bernie said isn't really something that it makes sense for anyone to say. Hillary won the majority of votes in 2016 and it was a fluke they were distributed in such a way that Trump could slip through with the electoral college system. The question of whether a women can win is stupid. Even the worst misogynist in the country knows a woman can win. The only interesting question is whether, right now in 2020, it is easier or harder for a female or a male candidate to win against Trump, and that will have been what they were discussing.
      A much better case could have been made that America wasn't ready for a black president than could be made that we still aren't ready for a woman president but Obama had no trouble winning in both 2008 and 2012.

      As Obama once told Hillary, "you're likeable enough." But then politicians are notorious liars.

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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      • #78
        If I didn't know any better, I'd swear the liberal media is intentionally trying to lose 2020.

        Comment


        • #79
          Do these people understand the difference between analyzing "body language" and straight up mind-reading?
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • #80
            warren_vs_bernie-1536x1189.jpg

            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
              I personally dreamed of an Andrew Yang ticket. But that's probably first relevant in 2024.
              I kind of like Yang. Not his politics so much, but him as a person. Seems very open and honest.

              ..unless it's all a political brainwashing trick!

              Comment


              • #82
                Hillary on Sanders "Nobody wants to work with him" "Nobody Likes Him"The Dem's long knives are out...

                https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/fe...bernie-1271551
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  I kind of like Yang. Not his politics so much, but him as a person. Seems very open and honest.

                  ..unless it's all a political brainwashing trick!
                  It's so hard to tell with career politicians who present a carefully crafted public persona while jealously guarding their private one.
                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by seer View Post
                    Hillary on Sanders "Nobody wants to work with him" "Nobody Likes Him"The Dem's long knives are out...

                    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/fe...bernie-1271551
                    She really did him wrong. Not only did she hint he too was a Russian asset during a Howard Stern interview, but claimed he backstabbed her during the election when he did more promotion for her than anyone else had done for any other candidate probably in the history of American politics. I really hope she jumps into the race just to see her humiliation for the third time before she croaks.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by seanD View Post
                      She really did him wrong. Not only did she hint he too was a Russian asset during a Howard Stern interview, but claimed he backstabbed her during the election when he did more promotion for her than anyone else had done for any other candidate probably in the history of American politics. I really hope she jumps into the race just to see her humiliation for the third time before she croaks.
                      I saw a comment that Howard Stern has fallen quite far from his "shock jock" glory days when Hillary isn't afraid to go on his show.
                      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                      Than a fool in the eyes of God


                      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        So it looks like this whole thing has actually been of great benefit to Sanders, as he surged ahead in the most recent poll, essentially tied with Biden:
                        https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/22/polit...nal/index.html

                        Obviously it's just one poll and all, but still notable. Apparently Warren, on the other hand, lost support, meaning people have swapped from supporting him to supporting Sanders instead. If this pattern is continued in new polls, it would indicate this whole thing ended up hurting Warren but helping Sanders.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
                          So it looks like this whole thing has actually been of great benefit to Sanders, as he surged ahead in the most recent poll, essentially tied with Biden:
                          https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/22/polit...nal/index.html

                          Obviously it's just one poll and all, but still notable. Apparently Warren, on the other hand, lost support, meaning people have swapped from supporting him to supporting Sanders instead. If this pattern is continued in new polls, it would indicate this whole thing ended up hurting Warren but helping Sanders.
                          I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure that Sanders began to surge past Warren before this incident was public.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
                            So it looks like this whole thing has actually been of great benefit to Sanders, as he surged ahead in the most recent poll, essentially tied with Biden:
                            https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/22/polit...nal/index.html

                            Obviously it's just one poll and all, but still notable. Apparently Warren, on the other hand, lost support, meaning people have swapped from supporting him to supporting Sanders instead. If this pattern is continued in new polls, it would indicate this whole thing ended up hurting Warren but helping Sanders.
                            Bernie's rise is of great benefit to the GOP in 2020.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by JimL View Post
                              I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure that Sanders began to surge past Warren before this incident was public.
                              He may have already been ahead of Warren, but this is a new surge that puts him on the level of Biden... and at Warren's expense. The most plausible explanation for this, assuming this isn't just an off poll, is that this controversy helped Sanders but hurt Warren.

                              Originally posted by seanD View Post
                              Bernie's rise is of great benefit to the GOP in 2020.
                              I remember people thinking "Trump's rise is of great benefit to the Democrats in 2016."

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
                                He may have already been ahead of Warren, but this is a new surge that puts him on the level of Biden... and at Warren's expense. The most plausible explanation for this, assuming this isn't just an off poll, is that this controversy helped Sanders but hurt Warren.
                                Meh, I don't know, they've been flip flopping in the polls since the beginning. I think other factors, like debate performance, or actual organization and campaigning etc. are more likely the reason for the back and forth. I could be wrong, but I'd be surprised if their little squabble changed any minds.

                                Comment

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