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Poll: Any more impeachment suprises coming?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
    The Dems will be very surprised when Trump isn't removed from office.
    Some were surprised he was not automatically removed as soon as the House impeached him.
    Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

    Beige Federalist.

    Nationalist Christian.

    "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

    Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

    Proud member of the this space left blank community.

    Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

    Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

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    Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

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    • #17
      I think it will be like the Kavanaugh fiasco, with an endless constant leaky bladder dribbling of new major-but-actually-trivial accusations.
      Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

      Beige Federalist.

      Nationalist Christian.

      "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

      Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

      Proud member of the this space left blank community.

      Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

      Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

      Justice for Matthew Perna!

      Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by JimL View Post
        No, we won't be surprised, Tea, we already know the trial is rigged in his favor. But if he isn't convicted in the Senate, he may very well be, as a result of the trial, ousted by the American people.
        So are you going to be among those in the streets rioting if he's not impeached and reelected?

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by seanD View Post
          So are you going to be among those in the streets rioting if he's not impeached and reelected?
          Calm yourself sean, no ones going to be rioting. Those of us who know Trump needs be impeached, not only because of the particular crimes he's been charged with, but for the good of democracy in general and for the Republic in particular, we fully expect the republicans to exonerate him even though they know of his guilt and of his danger. It's possible that a few Senate republicans will get a spine and do the right thing, instead of the politically safe thing, or that perhaps pressure from home will force them into doing the right thing. But there are not many us, I'm sure, who are holding our breath waiting for that to happen. Perhaps there are even a few on the Senate republican side who are smart enough to realize that even if they cooperate with a sham trial and leave the scoundrel in power, all the evidence that they kept hidden from the public is going to come out eventually. Maybe they'd care about that, maybe not. But like I said, I don't think anyone on this side is expecting a conviction.
          That said, there should be protests, not riots, the republicans have been, and would be continuing to, aid and abet a wannabe dictator to become the dictator that he wants to be. They'd be aiding and abetting in the cover-up of his crimes that they know he committed against the country. So yes, if they put on a sham trial, if they for the first time out of 15 impeachments in this country, disallow witnesses and documentary evidence in order to hide the truth from the jury, i.e. from the American people, then there should be protests of some sort, and I hope if that is the way the trial goes, that there will be protests, and I'd be right there with them.
          Last edited by JimL; 01-17-2020, 11:08 PM.

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          • #20
            Amusing cartoon today...



            It's a good reminder that when the Dems were doing the House investigation to decide whether there should be an impeachment trial, the Republicans had an endless stream of complaints about how the investigation wasn't a proper trial... and now that the Dems have turned it over to the Republican controlled Senate for the actual trial... the Republicans have decided they don't want to have a proper trial.
            "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
            "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
            "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
              The Dems will be very surprised when Trump isn't removed from office.
              Do you seriously think any Dems actually believe that Republican Senators will honor their constitutional oath to have an impartial trial? McConnell's already said he won't hold to that oath. Republicans don't give two figs about their oaths or the constitution, they'll just support their own party above all else, and everyone knows it.

              The Republican Senate will just vote to acquit and that will be that.
              "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
              "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
              "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                Do you seriously think any Dems actually believe that Republican Senators will honor their constitutional oath to have an impartial trial? McConnell's already said he won't hold to that oath. Republicans don't give two figs about their oaths or the constitution, they'll just support their own party above all else, and everyone knows it.

                The Republican Senate will just vote to acquit and that will be that.
                wouldn't that be a horrible unexpected outcome of something that has started as a totally partisan ploy?

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                  Do you seriously think any Dems actually believe that Republican Senators will honor their constitutional oath to have an impartial trial? McConnell's already said he won't hold to that oath. Republicans don't give two figs about their oaths or the constitution, they'll just support their own party above all else, and everyone knows it.

                  The Republican Senate will just vote to acquit and that will be that.
                  And the ultra righties on this site know that, and are all for it, as is made obvious by their arguments to keep the relevant evidence out. They don't want to take a chance and possibly be faced with the ugly truth. Although mostly I think they already know the ugly truth, but their party is more important to them than is the Constitution, their country or democracy itself.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by JimL View Post
                    And the ultra righties on this site know that, and are all for it, as is made obvious by their arguments to keep the relevant evidence out. They don't want to take a chance and possibly be faced with the ugly truth. Although mostly I think they already know the ugly truth, but their party is more important to them than is the Constitution, their country or democracy itself.
                    Any time you spout rhetoric this divorced from reality, it seems to be when even you realize you've got nothing better to stand on than to hope your interlocutors get ticked off and write angry replies back.

                    You're cute when you get all wild-eyed, Jim.
                    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

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                    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                      Any time you spout rhetoric this divorced from reality, it seems to be when even you realize you've got nothing better to stand on than to hope your interlocutors get ticked off and write angry replies back.

                      You're cute when you get all wild-eyed, Jim.
                      Well, being one of those ultra righties yourself, of course you would deny reality, and acuse the other of being divorced from it. But the proof is in the pudding so to speak. You aren't all so dumb as to not be able to put two and two together, or to not know that in a real trial, if the truth is the goal, then relevant witnesses and documentary evidence are admissable and necessary. You have all made it clear, that the truth isn't what you seek. So, against all the evidence to the contrary, you are defending a rogue president over your country, possibly because it was you who put him there in the first place. If it's just pride, then overcome your pride, and admit to facts when you see them instead of making excuses, or rationalizations for them in your own head.
                      Last edited by JimL; 01-18-2020, 08:53 PM.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                        Do you seriously think any Dems actually believe that Republican Senators will honor their constitutional oath to have an impartial trial? McConnell's already said he won't hold to that oath. Republicans don't give two figs about their oaths or the constitution, they'll just support their own party above all else, and everyone knows it.
                        Funny how nobody on the left seemed concerned about the House holding impartial hearings. IIRC half the Democrats on the two committees had said they supported impeachment well before the hearings (with some like Mad Max[ine] Waters vocally calling for it before he was even sworn in). They take an oath to uphold the constitution as well you know. But that was okay because (say it with me everyone)... TRUMP!!!1! smiley fist shake.gif smiley fist shake.gif

                        I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by JimL View Post
                          And the ultra righties on this site know that, and are all for it, as is made obvious by their arguments to keep the relevant evidence out. They don't want to take a chance and possibly be faced with the ugly truth. Although mostly I think they already know the ugly truth, but their party is more important to them than is the Constitution, their country or democracy itself.
                          Had breakfast with my lawyer about a week ago. His firm is handling a lawsuit for me though he himself is one of the top criminal lawyers in the region[1]. He's no fan of Trump's calling him President Oompa-Loompa but did remark on the Democrat's demands for witnesses to testify now that they weren't all that interested in testifying before the House.

                          As he put it, if the Democrats really thought that they had an "overwhelming" case the last thing they would want to do was call more witnesses since they would be wildcards that would far more likely weaken their case than bolster it. If the case was truly "overwhelming" as they claim you would be a fool to tamper with it, but if OTOH you realize that it is full of holes then and only then would you bring in folks who you do not know what they'll say when they testify.

                          It all goes back to the old adage about only an imprudent lawyer asks questions of a witness that the lawyer doesn't already know the answers to.





                          1. We've been friends since the 80s and he's always said I was one of his favorite clients because I never did anything that made his job harder. The last time I required his services was over 25 years ago and I had to ask for a continuance because he was busy with a murder case in another county that day (mine was a pretty minor misdemeanor). When I was applying for it with the prosecutor and a court clerk they asked for the name of my attorney and their shocked reaction was priceless when I gave it to them. They were expecting one of the ambulance chasers that were handling everyone's else minor cases not a top flight lawyer. All of a sudden they started treating me with respect as a result

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            Had breakfast with my lawyer about a week ago. His firm is handling a lawsuit for me though he himself is one of the top criminal lawyers in the region[1]. He's no fan of Trump's calling him President Oompa-Loompa but did remark on the Democrat's demands for witnesses to testify now that they weren't all that interested in testifying before the House.

                            As he put it, if the Democrats really thought that they had an "overwhelming" case the last thing they would want to do was call more witnesses since they would be wildcards that would far more likely weaken their case than bolster it. If the case was truly "overwhelming" as they claim you would be a fool to tamper with it, but if OTOH you realize that it is full of holes then and only then would you bring in folks who you do not know what they'll say when they testify.

                            It all goes back to the old adage about only an imprudent lawyer asks questions of a witness that the lawyer doesn't already know the answers to.
                            Yes, well, the problem for the republicans is that, just like the president who blocked all witnesses and documents, they do know what the answers will be, and they won't be advantageous to their case. Surely you don't think they want to deny witnesses that would be advantageous to the defense, do you?




                            1. We've been friends since the 80s and he's always said I was one of his favorite clients because I never did anything that made his job harder. The last time I required his services was over 25 years ago and I had to ask for a continuance because he was busy with a murder case in another county that day (mine was a pretty minor misdemeanor). When I was applying for it with the prosecutor and a court clerk they asked for the name of my attorney and their shocked reaction was priceless when I gave it to them. They were expecting one of the ambulance chasers that were handling everyone's else minor cases not a top flight lawyer. All of a sudden they started treating me with respect as a result
                            Great, but he's still wrong. I'm sure if he had new evidence that would help your case, he'd surely want it admitted in trial.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                              They take an oath to uphold the constitution as well you know.
                              The constitution specifies that the Senators during an impeachment trial are to take an oath of impartiality, in a way that House members are not required to when deciding whether to pass articles of impeachment to the Senate for trial.
                              "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                              "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                              "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                                Had breakfast with my lawyer about a week ago. His firm is handling a lawsuit for me though he himself is one of the top criminal lawyers in the region[1]. He's no fan of Trump's calling him President Oompa-Loompa but did remark on the Democrat's demands for witnesses to testify now that they weren't all that interested in testifying before the House.

                                As he put it, if the Democrats really thought that they had an "overwhelming" case the last thing they would want to do was call more witnesses since they would be wildcards that would far more likely weaken their case than bolster it. If the case was truly "overwhelming" as they claim you would be a fool to tamper with it, but if OTOH you realize that it is full of holes then and only then would you bring in folks who you do not know what they'll say when they testify.

                                It all goes back to the old adage about only an imprudent lawyer asks questions of a witness that the lawyer doesn't already know the answers to.





                                1. We've been friends since the 80s and he's always said I was one of his favorite clients because I never did anything that made his job harder. The last time I required his services was over 25 years ago and I had to ask for a continuance because he was busy with a murder case in another county that day (mine was a pretty minor misdemeanor). When I was applying for it with the prosecutor and a court clerk they asked for the name of my attorney and their shocked reaction was priceless when I gave it to them. They were expecting one of the ambulance chasers that were handling everyone's else minor cases not a top flight lawyer. All of a sudden they started treating me with respect as a result
                                In Australia the prosecution must call all witnesses with unique relevant information to the case whether it helps their case or harms it. Failure to do that is a mistrial. I dont know if its the same over there but even if the Democrats really thought they had an overwhelming case, the jury has indicated that they wont convict so they have nothing to lose.

                                On the other hand, if anyone is actually interested in the truth they would want to hear new relevant information. Beyond reasonable doubt can always be shattered by one piece of evidence. From what has been presented so far the case is beyond reasonable doubt. That means that there is no other reasonable explanation that accounts for the evidence. That doesn't mean a reasonable explanation doesn't exist its up to the defence to present it. So far its been a whole lot of whining about unfairness - thats not a reasonable explanation to account for the evidence.

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