Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 76

Thread: Are there no beneficial mutations?

  1. #11
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Southeastern U.S. of A.
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    57,519
    Amen (Given)
    1198
    Amen (Received)
    21065
    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    Beware of actors wearing permanent press lab coats on TV.
    Or folks sitting in a studio wearing a safari jacket and maybe even a pith helmet while discussing geology and paleontology

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

  2. #12
    tWebber
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Faith
    Unspecified
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    198
    Amen (Given)
    160
    Amen (Received)
    15
    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Another well known example of a beneficial mutation are those that provide lactase persistence. An allele conferring lactase persistence has evolved separately at least seven different times in the last 7000 years among pastoralist groups ranging from Northern and Eastern Europe, the Middle East, Northeast Africa and India) allowing adult humans to drink milk. This provides them with another source of food to consume that those who are lactate intolerant can not use. That would definitely come in handy during periods of decreased food supply.
    I once brought up this example for my uncle who is Catholic but thinks evolution is ''ridiculous'', and he replied that this is utterly foolish since what humans (i.e., babies) did feed on if they had lactose intolerance? So I guess this is a stupid question, but I presume you mean adults having lactose intolerance or lack thereof is what is at issue here?

  3. #13
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Southeastern U.S. of A.
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    57,519
    Amen (Given)
    1198
    Amen (Received)
    21065
    Quote Originally Posted by Seeker View Post
    I once brought up this example for my uncle who is Catholic but thinks evolution is ''ridiculous'', and he replied that this is utterly foolish since what humans (i.e., babies) did feed on if they had lactose intolerance? So I guess this is a stupid question, but I presume you mean adults having lactose intolerance or lack thereof is what is at issue here?
    Yes. As we get older something like 75% of humans produce less and less lactase so that lactose doesn't get absorbed properly. The mutations various groups evolved in their genomes has allowed many adults to digest lactose and therefore consume milk.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

  4. #14
    tWebber
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Faith
    Unspecified
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    198
    Amen (Given)
    160
    Amen (Received)
    15
    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Yes. As we get older something like 75% of humans produce less and less lactase so that lactose doesn't get absorbed properly. The mutations various groups evolved in their genomes has allowed many adults to digest lactose and therefore consume milk.
    Ok, thanks.

  5. #15
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Southeastern U.S. of A.
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    57,519
    Amen (Given)
    1198
    Amen (Received)
    21065

    Another one

    Research released earlier this month found genetic mutations that reduce the production of proteins known as tyrosine phosphatases which has been shown to reduce the risk of developing late-onset Alzheimer’s disease (LOAD).

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

  6. #16
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Southeastern U.S. of A.
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    57,519
    Amen (Given)
    1198
    Amen (Received)
    21065
    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Research released earlier this month found genetic mutations that reduce the production of proteins known as tyrosine phosphatases which has been shown to reduce the risk of developing late-onset Alzheimer’s disease (LOAD).
    Here's another beneficial Alzheimer's related mutation. This one in a family beset with hereditary Alzheimer's disease.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

  7. #17
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Southeastern U.S. of A.
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    57,519
    Amen (Given)
    1198
    Amen (Received)
    21065
    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    It is extremely rare but I actually provided the name of one person who has been confirmed to have it, the artist Concetta Antico. When you Google her she is consistently referred to as "Tetrachromat Artist Concetta Antico."

    Gabriele Jordan, a professor at the Institute of Neuroscience, Newcastle University in Britain has been investigating four-color vision or tetrachromacy since the '90s and studying a woman (subject cDa29) who has it that she ran across in 2010. See The women with superhuman vision as well as Scientists find woman who sees 99 million more colors than others. And the paper discussing it can be found HERE.

    Jay Neitz, the Bishop Professor of Ophthalmology and a color vision researcher at the University of Washington is even predicting that at some time in the future gene therapy might allow humans with normal color visions to possess tetrachromatic vision.
    Here is an interesting article in Psychology Today written by a woman who found out that she has tetrachromatic vision: DNA Results: Positive for Tetrachromacy

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

  8. #18
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,380
    Amen (Given)
    463
    Amen (Received)
    248
    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Here's another beneficial Alzheimer's related mutation. This one in a family beset with hereditary Alzheimer's disease.
    Good news! And both of these seem to be (ala Behe's prediction) degradative mutations.

    Source: Science News

    The swap prevents the APOE protein from binding to some sugar-dotted proteins called heparan sulfate proteoglycans, or HSPGs, experiments on the isolated proteins revealed.

    Source

    © Copyright Original Source



    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  9. #19
    tWebber HMS_Beagle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Thinking
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,088
    Amen (Given)
    59
    Amen (Received)
    462
    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    Good news! And both of these seem to be (ala Behe's prediction) degradative mutations.

    The swap prevents the APOE protein from binding to some sugar-dotted proteins called heparan sulfate proteoglycans, or HSPGs, experiments on the isolated proteins revealed.
    Source

    Blessings,
    Lee
    The bad news is Behe is either woefully incompetent, a deliberate liar, or both. Here is a rather scathing review with direct evidence of Behe cherry-picking results and ignoring the huge amount of evidence which directly contradicts his "evolution only degrades" stupidity

    Evolution unscathed: Darwin Devolves argues on weak reasoning that unguided evolution is a destructive force, incapable of innovation

    The “First Rule” appeared in a 2010 review in the Quarterly Review of Biology (Behe 2010), largely as a critique of the field of experimental evolution, which has grown dramatically in the last 20 years (see reviews by Fisher and Lang 2016; Lenski 2017; Van den Bergh et al. 2018). Collectively, experimental evolution has yielded new insights into the tempo of genotypic and phenotypic adaptation (Barrick et al. 2009), the role of historical contingency in the evolution of new traits (Blount et al. 2008), second‐order selection on mutator alleles (Sniegowski et al. 1997), the power of sex to combine favorable (and purge deleterious) mutations (McDonald et al. 2016), the dynamics of adaptation (Lang et al. 2013; Good et al. 2017), and the seemingly unlimited potential of adaptive evolution (Wiser et al. 2013).

    Behe gives a misleading account of experimental evolution by trumpeting each and every loss‐of‐function mutation that provides a selective advantage. In truth, loss‐of‐function mutations are expected to contribute disproportionately to adaptation in experimental evolution, where selective pressures are high and conditions are constant, or nearly so. Systematic studies in yeast and bacteria show that most genes can be deleted singly with little functional consequence (Giaever et al. 2002; Winzeler 1999) and that a number of gene deletions are beneficial in specific environments (Hottes et al. 2004; Pir et al. 2012; Novo et al. 2013). It is important to point out that these mutations are often pleiotropic (Qian et al. 2012) and are not necessarily beneficial outside of the defined conditions of the experiment. No deletion is beneficial in all environments and beneficial loss‐of‐function mutations that arise in experimental evolution are unlikely to succeed if, say, cells are required to mate (Lang et al. 2009), the static environment is disturbed (Frenkel et al. 2015), or glucose is temporarily depleted (Li et al. 2018). Yet, Behe rests his central premise on the weak claim that these data demonstrate the ineffectiveness of random mutation and natural selection in all situations.

    After reading Darwin Devolves, one would be forgiven for expecting that loss‐of‐function mutations swamp out all other forms of genetic variation no matter the context. After all, Behe states that “random mutation and natural selection are in fact fiercely devolutionary (p10),” and degrading mutations are “relentless as the tide and as futile to try to resist (p186).” However, the truth is that loss‐of‐function mutations account for only a small fraction of natural genetic variation. In humans only ∼3.5% of exonic and splice site variants (57,137 out of 1,639,223) are putatively loss‐of‐function (Saleheen et al. 2017), and a survey of 42 yeast strains found that only 242 of the nearly 6000 genes contain putative loss‐of‐function variants (Bergström et al. 2014). Compared to the vast majority of natural genetic variants, loss‐of‐function variants have a much lower allele‐frequency distribution (MacArthur et al. 2012). Still, Behe fixates on beneficial loss‐of‐function mutations, drawing heavily from situations where one expects such mutations to be favored—such as experimental evolution—and generalizes to all situations this one mechanism writ large.
    Read the whole review to see just what a scam artist Behe really is.

  10. Amen shunyadragon amen'd this post.
  11. #20
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,380
    Amen (Given)
    463
    Amen (Received)
    248
    Source: Evolution unscathed

    Compared to the vast majority of natural genetic variants, loss‐of‐function variants have a much lower allele‐frequency distribution (MacArthur et al. 2012). Still, Behe fixates on beneficial loss‐of‐function mutations, drawing heavily from situations where one expects such mutations to be favored—such as experimental evolution—and generalizes to all situations this one mechanism writ large.

    © Copyright Original Source


    I think Behe is fixing on degradative mutations more that loss-of-function mutations, though:

    Source: Darwin Devolves, p. 151, emphasis in the original

    So what do those changes do to the protein? The authors write that “[computer] analysis classified both as damaging.”

    Damaging. In other words, as in the case of the polar bear discussed in the first chapter, the mutations are predicted (based on computer modeling, not yet on actual experiments) to impair the normal function of the protein.

    © Copyright Original Source


    And Behe focuses on many real-world examples, not just experiments.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •