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If Texas turns blue in 2020 should the Democrats gerrymander?

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  • If Texas turns blue in 2020 should the Democrats gerrymander?

    It hurts my heart but I am going to say they should stop at nothing to gerrymander it. Afterwards they should be similarly zealous to pass laws or even amend the state constitution to prevent gerrymandering in the future.

    Does that make me a sellout?
    2
    No
    0.00%
    0
    Yes, a little
    0.00%
    0
    Yes, a lot
    50.00%
    1
    THERE WILL BE BLOOD
    50.00%
    1

    The poll is expired.


  • #2
    Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
    Does that make me a sellout?
    Just be honest that winning and power is what you care about and not principle of 'fair play' or true belief in democratic ideals, then you won't be a sellout.
    Last edited by demi-conservative; 01-19-2020, 01:05 PM.
    Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post
      Just be honest that winning and power is what you care about and not principle of 'fair play' or true belief in democratic ideals, then you won't be a sellout.
      Is that a yes then?

      Are you suggesting that those are the same motivations for gerrymanders in red states? Or are there more virtuous reasons for gerrymandering?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
        Are you suggesting that those are the same motivations for gerrymanders in red states? Or are there more virtuous reasons for gerrymandering?
        That's the politicians. The ordinary conservative voter doesn't support gerrymandering, but here you are.

        Is that a yes then?
        You're not a sellout. We both know you are slimy on politics. You're not a sellout, because you're being true to yourself.

        The next time you get triggered and want to sanctimoniously rant at Trump supporters, remember this, slimy one.
        Last edited by demi-conservative; 01-19-2020, 04:08 PM.
        Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

        Comment


        • #5
          No. Democrats should work, in Texas and all other states, to remove partisan gerrymanders. The outcome will be beneficial to democracy and essential for liberalism. Trading one illiberal state for another is in no one's long-term interests.

          --Sam
          "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
            It hurts my heart but I am going to say they should stop at nothing to gerrymander it. Afterwards they should be similarly zealous to pass laws or even amend the state constitution to prevent gerrymandering in the future.

            Does that make me a sellout?
            It isn't whether the democrats should redistrict, it's that when redistricting needs doing, it should be done by a neutral, disinterested party, regardless of which party holds power. That should be the law.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post
              Just be honest that winning and power is what you care about and not principle of 'fair play' or true belief in democratic ideals, then you won't be a sellout.
              You seem to be of the opinion that the two are incompatile desires, comrade. Number one is "democracy," second is winning and power, won fairly within that democratic system of governance. The problem you conservatives are having right now, is that you can't win fairly, so you do what ever you can to undermine the process, you know, with things like extreme gerrymandering, voter suppression tactics, and soliciting interference from foriegn countries. One might call it, slimy!

              Comment


              • #8
                I think Republicans shouldn't be too surprised to see the tools they've used for their own benefit turned against them. At the moment however, gerrymandering is an issue both sides deal with. This is to the point where some consider gerrymandering another level of political action, and part of the process.

                Improving it should be a bipartisan task. Both sides benefit from it, as no one wants a state locked-in not by what the voters represent, but through strangely and artifically constructed districts.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                  I think Republicans shouldn't be too surprised to see the tools they've used for their own benefit turned against them. At the moment however, gerrymandering is an issue both sides deal with. This is to the point where some consider gerrymandering another level of political action, and part of the process.
                  Right, gerrymandering has been used by both sides because redistricting has been left up to the party in power how to redistrict. That's why it should be taken out of their hands and put into the hands of a neutral party. The people should be electing their representatives as was intended, not the other way around.
                  Improving it should be a bipartisan task. Both sides benefit from it, as no one wants a state locked-in not by what the voters represent, but through strangely and artifically constructed districts.
                  Agreed.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by JimL View Post
                    It isn't whether the democrats should redistrict, it's that when redistricting needs doing, it should be done by a neutral, disinterested party, regardless of which party holds power. That should be the law.
                    I amen'd that, Jim, but I'm sad to say that I can't see it actually happening --- both sides are too entrenched in holding or gaining power for that to ever work.

                    Do you have a suggestion as to who (or what) this "disinterested party" could be?
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I did not answer the question, because the answers do not work.

                      The problem of gerrymandering is epidemic in many states by both parties. North Carolina is notorious for gerrymandering with its interstate snake for a black district. I support some sort of independent system to determine the electoral districts. Some form of redistricting commissions like in Arizona, New Jersey and California, or Independent non-partisan redistricting as in Iowa are preferred.
                      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                      go with the flow the river knows . . .

                      Frank

                      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                        as no one wants a state locked-in not by what the voters represent
                        Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          One proposal I heard of for redistricting which I like the sound of is the following

                          1) Party A draws up proposed districts
                          2) Party B chooses one of the districts to make permanent
                          3) Party B redraws the remaining districts
                          4) Party A chooses one of the districts to make permanent
                          5) Party A redraws the remaining districts
                          etc.

                          It would have to be war gamed out a few times and see how it measures up compared to other approaches but intuitively it seems hard to 'cheat' at since you are never the one picking the districts which you drew. I think you could come up with pretty simple ways to extend it to more than two parties as well if that ever became a realistic issue in this country. Of course, I'm easy to please since we have close the worst possible system at the moment.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            It just seems like counties and parishes should be considered, either individually, or grouped geographically. County lines don't (shouldn't) change.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              I amen'd that, Jim, but I'm sad to say that I can't see it actually happening --- both sides are too entrenched in holding or gaining power for that to ever work.

                              Do you have a suggestion as to who (or what) this "disinterested party" could be?
                              Well I don't know off hand, I would assume that a special bipartisan or non political commision of a sort would need be created who would need adhere to the original purpose (whatever that is) of redistricting.

                              Comment

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