View Poll Results: If Texas turns blue in 2020 should democrats gerrymander?

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Thread: If Texas turns blue in 2020 should the Democrats gerrymander?

  1. #11
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    I did not answer the question, because the answers do not work.

    The problem of gerrymandering is epidemic in many states by both parties. North Carolina is notorious for gerrymandering with its interstate snake for a black district. I support some sort of independent system to determine the electoral districts. Some form of redistricting commissions like in Arizona, New Jersey and California, or Independent non-partisan redistricting as in Iowa are preferred.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  2. #12
    tWebber demi-conservative's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    as no one wants a state locked-in not by what the voters represent
    I can't help but perversely root for Bloomberg simply because he doesn't even try to pretend we live in a serious country or a serious democracy and treats it and the process with the cynical contempt it deserves.

  3. #13
    tWebber
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    One proposal I heard of for redistricting which I like the sound of is the following

    1) Party A draws up proposed districts
    2) Party B chooses one of the districts to make permanent
    3) Party B redraws the remaining districts
    4) Party A chooses one of the districts to make permanent
    5) Party A redraws the remaining districts
    etc.

    It would have to be war gamed out a few times and see how it measures up compared to other approaches but intuitively it seems hard to 'cheat' at since you are never the one picking the districts which you drew. I think you could come up with pretty simple ways to extend it to more than two parties as well if that ever became a realistic issue in this country. Of course, I'm easy to please since we have close the worst possible system at the moment.

  4. #14
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    It just seems like counties and parishes should be considered, either individually, or grouped geographically. County lines don't (shouldn't) change.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  5. #15
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    I amen'd that, Jim, but I'm sad to say that I can't see it actually happening --- both sides are too entrenched in holding or gaining power for that to ever work.

    Do you have a suggestion as to who (or what) this "disinterested party" could be?
    Well I don't know off hand, I would assume that a special bipartisan or non political commision of a sort would need be created who would need adhere to the original purpose (whatever that is) of redistricting.

  6. #16
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Well I don't know off hand, I would assume that a special bipartisan or non political commision of a sort would need be created who would need adhere to the original purpose (whatever that is) of redistricting.
    Yeah, in this political climate, I'm just not seeing it.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  7. #17
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by DivineOb View Post
    One proposal I heard of for redistricting which I like the sound of is the following

    1) Party A draws up proposed districts
    2) Party B chooses one of the districts to make permanent
    3) Party B redraws the remaining districts
    4) Party A chooses one of the districts to make permanent
    5) Party A redraws the remaining districts
    etc.

    It would have to be war gamed out a few times and see how it measures up compared to other approaches but intuitively it seems hard to 'cheat' at since you are never the one picking the districts which you drew. I think you could come up with pretty simple ways to extend it to more than two parties as well if that ever became a realistic issue in this country. Of course, I'm easy to please since we have close the worst possible system at the moment.
    There's no need to reinvent the wheel: numerous states have implemented different ways to create non-partisan redistricting. What matters is that the outcomes of those methods pass the mathematical models created (by people like Sam Wang at the Princeton Gerrymandering Project) to measure the extremity of partisan gerrymandering. It's possible to model "natural" gerrymandering against partisan gerrymandering and test whether a map is fairly districted.

    SCOTUS had the opportunity to establish a standard with the WI/CT/MD case last year but, predictably, declined to even come close. But any state can establish such guidelines, using one or more mathematical models, and use any method it wants to get there.

    --Sam
    "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"


  8. #18
    tWebber
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    In Michigan in 2018, for example, a ballot initiative passed to grant redistricting power to an independent board comprised of 13 MI citizens randomly chosen: four affiliated with Democrats, four affiliated with Republicans, and five unaffiliated. I do not believe the ballot initiative established a standard to measure the extremity of gerrymandering in whatever map is chosen but such tools will be available to the commission.

    --Sam
    "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"


  9. Amen JimL amen'd this post.
  10. #19
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    There's no need to reinvent the wheel: numerous states have implemented different ways to create non-partisan redistricting. What matters is that the outcomes of those methods pass the mathematical models created (by people like Sam Wang at the Princeton Gerrymandering Project) to measure the extremity of partisan gerrymandering. It's possible to model "natural" gerrymandering against partisan gerrymandering and test whether a map is fairly districted.

    SCOTUS had the opportunity to establish a standard with the WI/CT/MD case last year but, predictably, declined to even come close. But any state can establish such guidelines, using one or more mathematical models, and use any method it wants to get there.

    --Sam
    And it's probably largely influenced by the function of the Electoral College - Why would a blue state or a red state allow "fair" or "natural" gerrymandering if it meant losing the influence of either party?

    Yeah, I know, I'm a cynic -- I think both sides are simply too territorial.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  11. #20
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Yeah, in this political climate, I'm just not seeing it.
    Well, whether we see it or not it's something that needs be done. Perhaps when republicans lose their power in state legislatures, they'll come around as well.

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