Originally posted by simplicio
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Originally posted by simplicio View PostWas the peaceful outcome a result of any inherent qualities of the participants...The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by simplicio View PostWas the peaceful outcome a result of any inherent qualities of the participants, or the efforts of the law enforcement planning and execution of the plan?That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostDo you think that Antifa would actually try something with much of the crowd carrying guns?
So Antifa was only deterred by the armed citizenry, and were not really peaceful, while the unarmed gun rights protesters were inherently peaceful, and the armed gun rights protesters outside the perimeter were were peaceful.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostOn behalf of the responsible gun owners, yes, it's their inherent quality.
Do we want responsible gun owners to be armed within the churches? If so, then is responsibility a suitable criteria to choose which congregants are armed? Or is something more required, such as training.
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Originally posted by simplicio View PostWho are the responsible gun owners? Some neo-Nazis tried to provoke a response and were arrested. And how do we tell them responsible ones from the irresponsible ones?
Do we want responsible gun owners to be armed within the churches?
If so, then is responsibility a suitable criteria to choose which congregants are armed? Or is something more required, such as training.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostIt was pretty obvious to the cops, wasn't it?
That's up to the Churches to decide - I personally don't like it, but it may necessary in this day and age.
Training, coordination, a lot of thought --- and, yes, responsibility. I have a DEA agent, two Sheriff's Deputies, a Police Lieutenant, and an Assistant District Attorney (and a retired Sheriff) who are pretty much always present and armed --- we discourage anybody else from carrying, and have discussed the danger of "crossfire" where untrained persons can be too "helpful".
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostIt was pretty obvious to the cops, wasn't it?
That's up to the Churches to decide - I personally don't like it, but it may necessary in this day and age.
Training, coordination, a lot of thought --- and, yes, responsibility. I have a DEA agent, two Sheriff's Deputies, a Police Lieutenant, and an Assistant District Attorney (and a retired Sheriff) who are pretty much always present and armed --- we discourage anybody else from carrying, and have discussed the danger of "crossfire" where untrained persons can be too "helpful".
That is quite a list of men with significant amounts of training, trained at taxpayer expense.
So "responsible gun owner" is not enough for you, something more is required.
You did not address the point about nazis, who were not welcome at the rally. Does ideology, ideas, or thoughts, come into play? I do not know if Nazis were represented at the rally, or if there was any plan to weed them out of the inner perimeter.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostYou got it in one.
Maybe gun owners are people unaffected by original sin, which would account for the inherent pacifism of the men and women dressed in tactical garb. I saw plenty of green camo in the pictures, but I didn't see much orange camo!
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Originally posted by simplicio View PostHow do you discern the violent Antifa from the nonviolent ones?
Maybe gun owners are people unaffected by original sin, which would account for the inherent pacifism of the men and women dressed in tactical garb. I saw plenty of green camo in the pictures, but I didn't see much orange camo!Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by simplicio View PostHow do you discern the violent Antifa from the nonviolent ones?
Maybe gun owners are people unaffected by original sin, which would account for the inherent pacifism of the men and women dressed in tactical garb. I saw plenty of green camo in the pictures, but I didn't see much orange camo!Last edited by Sparko; 01-22-2020, 09:43 AM.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostAre there any nonviolent ones? They don't seem very peaceful at any other rallies do they? Antifa is a movement steeped in violence from the beginning. If someone is non-violent, they need to find a different movement to associate with. Your question is like asking, "how do you tell the racist KKK from the non-racist ones?"
huh???
The flaw in that argument, is obvious. If not, let me provide the example of some gun rights advocates, and gun owners, are violent. Therefore should we conclude gun owners are violent?
My second paragraph attempted to draw in Christian theology, the doctrine of original sin. Good people can do bad things. The exception being, of course gun owners! The Antifa are not peaceful, so it goes without saying that they have a fallen nature.
Many Christian posters are arguing that law enforcement plan was not really all that important, the gun owners are inherently peaceful.
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Originally posted by simplicio View PostAre there any nonviolent Antifa? Good question. But you note the existence of violent Antifa implies that all Antifa are violent!
The flaw in that argument, is obvious. If not, let me provide the example of some gun rights advocates, and gun owners, are violent. Therefore should we conclude gun owners are violent?
My second paragraph attempted to draw in Christian theology, the doctrine of original sin. Good people can do bad things. The exception being, of course gun owners! The Antifa are not peaceful, so it goes without saying that they have a fallen nature.
Many Christian posters are arguing that law enforcement plan was not really all that important, the gun owners are inherently peaceful.
as to your second paragraph, we are all sinners. Even gun owners.
And not all gun owners are inherently peaceful. Duh. CP was talking about "responsible gun owners"
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Originally posted by Sparko View Post"Gun Owners" are not a cohesive group. Not some movement. Antifa is. It is a movement that is based on violence. Gun owners are just people who own guns. They could even be members of antifa, or the KKK, criminals or the police. Even you. Your argument is like saying people who wear hats are the same as the KKK.
as to your second paragraph, we are all sinners. Even gun owners.
And not all gun owners are inherently peaceful. Duh. CP was talking about "responsible gun owners"
That is a repugnant view. The crowd on the street posed no danger, was not violent when the car barreled down the street. The Christians who camped at the local church were not violent, posed no threat. From what I read, they were wiling to give water to any who entered, though it is unlikely any of the protesters entered, only counter protesters.
It seems your description does not posit that all gun owners are inherently peaceful, just responsible gun owners are peaceful.
Which are the responsible gun owners? Responsibility alone was not enough for cow poke when it comes to guns n the church. Significant amounts of training was given as examples.
In the church surrounding us, or on the street among strangers, who do we want to bear arms, potentially lethal weapons? An armed Antifa? Armed neo confederates?
Maybe a responsible klansman, as long as he is "responsible"?
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