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Thread: Happy Robert E Lee Day

  1. #11
    tWebber demi-conservative's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    Civil rights is a commie plot! I suppose that Letter from a Birmingham Jail is a Trotskyite propaganda?
    Nice straw men.

    It is well established that the USSR wanted to sow division in the US, King was surrounded and influenced by communists, and that his actions contributed to the widespread division.

    While there were definitely legitimate grievances by blacks, it is also established that the Communists particularly desired to support the civil rights movement.

    I read the speeches and writings, and look at his actions, and see a committed and courageous Christian, whose thought was formed by, and informed by, the Christian faith.
    I expect no less from a self-admitted simple one.

    Despite a nonviolent facade, King and his allies cynically put children in the position of beaten up and killed for emotional manipulation.

    But the civil rights movement wasn’t seen as nonviolent in its day — and for good reason. The most jarring evidence of this came just a month after King’s Birmingham jail letter. In May 1963, movement organizers assembled black children , some still in pigtails, to march through the streets of Birmingham and confront Bull Connor’s violent police force. It was a controversial tactic within the movement, but organizers must have known that images of jailed, beaten and cowering children would affect hearts, force a response from officials and move the movement toward its goals.
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    “They couldn’t have been ignorant of the terrible response,” says King biographer and New York University historian David Levering Lewis. “King and his inner circle appreciated the probable certainty of violence on the part of the establishment to trigger responses that they wanted, in terms of legislation and policies.” The children called it “D-Day.”

    Connor didn’t disappoint. He attacked the marchers with German shepherds and baton-wielding policemen. Connor’s army funneled hundreds of children and teenagers into overcrowded jail cells. Still, the kids returned to the streets the next day. And the day after that. Malcolm X, whom history treats as the movement’s violent alter ego, criticized King for the event, saying that “real men don’t put their children on the firing line.” King, on the other hand, called it “one of the wisest moves we made.”

    The Children’s Crusade changed the way the movement was covered by the press. Where the crushing effects of segregated schools hadn’t won hearts, where brutal, state-sanctioned beatings of hymn-singing black men and women hadn’t gained sympathy, the nation couldn’t ignore the images of children recoiling from the raised batons of sneering police officers. Only the most distressing type of violence worked.
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    This was King’s strategy. “Freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed,” he said — an aggressive and confrontational stance that Americans rejected at the time and have forgotten today. Most people, including Northerners, opposed King’s March on Washington, fearing that it was a call to uprising. A Gallup poll conducted in May 1963, the same month as the Children’s Crusade, found that 46 percent of Americans held an unfavorable view of King. The only public figure more disliked in the poll was Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev. By 1966, more than two-thirds of Americans had an unfavorable view of the civil rights leader.

    Black Lives Matter doesn’t fare much better: In a September PBS-Marist poll, 59 percent of white Americans said BLM is a distraction and, in response to a separate question, 41 percent said it advocates violence (16 percent said they were unsure whether it does).

    King, likewise, faced editorials admonishing him for provoking riots and isolating those sympathetic to his cause with his “excessive” demonstrations. Progressive white Americans, who distinguished themselves from the “bigots and hatemongers” in the South, turned against King when he came into their de facto segregated neighborhoods to protest racist housing practices — in much the same way Bernie Sanders supporters slammed the “extreme” tactics of activists who took the presidential candidate’s stage in August to demand that he address systemic racism.
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    Even black Americans criticized King’s strategy. In response to a demonstration that turned violent in Memphis in 1968, a black man penned a derisive letter to King, blaming him for the death of a 16-year-old boy who was shot by a police officer in the chaos that followed the protest. “I know that you think that you are helping all of us Negroes,” the man wrote, adding: “After knowing the honest truth about this and many other deaths caused by your calm riots, we as a body had rather not have any thing else to do with you or your so called righteous riots or better, righteous murders.”
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/poste...ement-did-too/
    Last edited by demi-conservative; 01-20-2020 at 10:03 AM.
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  2. #12
    Oops....... mossrose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    Yes. It says a lot about Christians, especially Baptists, that they would so easily be drawn into sexual deviancy, of orgies, at a religiously themed workshop.

    Are you a Christian? You say you are. If you are, then you condemn yourself by your own words.


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  3. #13
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    True. But my post used ideas of Lee, yours used ideas of King. Both were Christian gentlemen.
    Mine was a direct quote of King. (I believe it's assumed by some it was actually plagiarized)

    Do you think Lee is worthy of the honor of a holiday?
    I was happy with President's Day.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  4. #14
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    Yes. It says a lot about Christians, especially Baptists, that they would so easily be drawn into sexual deviancy, of orgies, at a religiously themed workshop.
    No, actually it says something about those particular men.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  5. #15
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    Civil rights is a commie plot! I suppose that Letter from a Birmingham Jail is a Trotskyite propaganda?

    I read the speeches and writings, and look at his actions, and see a committed and courageous Christian, whose thought was formed by, and informed by, the Christian faith.
    While, of course being "easily be drawn into sexual deviancy, of orgies, at a religiously themed workshop".... you're just trolling, eh?
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  6. #16
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    The point is I do believe that Lee was a committed Christian with a blind spot when it came to slavery, just as King had a blind spot when it came to infidelity.
    I'm shocked --- FLAWED LEADERS, like in the Bible???? And, speaking of Kings.... King David...
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  7. Amen Cerebrum123, NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  8. #17
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    I'm shocked --- FLAWED LEADERS, like in the Bible???? And, speaking of Kings.... King David...
    Right.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  9. #18
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    The point is I do believe that Lee was a committed Christian with a blind spot when it came to slavery, just as King had a blind spot when it came to infidelity.
    But there is a significant difference. Many saw slavery as perfectly compatible with Christianity and a Christian society. It is unlikely that King did not recognize that adultery was sin.

  10. #19
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    But there is a significant difference. Many saw slavery as perfectly compatible with Christianity and a Christian society. It is unlikely that King did not recognize that adultery was sin.
    So Lee had an excuse for his behavior and King did not! So who is the better Christian?
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  11. Amen NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  12. #20
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by mossrose View Post
    Are you a Christian? You say you are. If you are, then you condemn yourself by your own words.
    Except the argument was not mine. The accusations about the orgies center on a workshop which drew many Baptists, it was for pastors and was on Christian urban leadership, and it was run by Men who were largely Baptist pastors. If the orgy stories are true, then the participants were predominately Baptist.

    The stories on the all night orgies are pretty over the top bizarre. If it happened then the participants were likely Christian ministers.

    Do give those stories credence?

    Are you sure you are in a position to cast such stones? Not sure a parody of the Christian faith is the real McCoy, and someone referred to your brand of Christianity as a parody of the real thing. I am not aware that he has changed his mind
    Last edited by simplicio; 01-20-2020 at 11:59 AM.

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