Originally posted by Cow Poke
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The Impeachment Trial
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“I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
“And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
“not all there” - you know who you are
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostEven some Dems have said that ---
If all it does is support the Dem's 'quid pro quo' charge, and
The Repubs still think that's not impeachable, then
there is nothing Bolton can say to move the needle.
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Originally posted by Sam View PostYou've asserted that Bolton can't deny anything but have not grounded that in any sort of case law or contract clause. I've noted that such a prohibition doesn't make sense.
And, as previously noted, the whole point is moot, because the funds were released prior to the deadline without any quid pro quo having taken place. Feel free to keep screaming about it, however. All that crying "Wolf!" is bound to do some good, right?Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by firstfloor View PostI don’t think you appreciate the scope of Trump’s wrongdoing. If this is not impeachable, then impeachment is a useless remedy for any POTUS crime.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostEr, no. It makes a lot of sense. Bolton's book is being vetted to make sure he's not saying anything that's unsuitable for release to the public. Until that process is complete, he can't know what he may or may not say - that's why the book is being vetted!
Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostAnd, as previously noted, the whole point is moot, because the funds were released prior to the deadline without any quid pro quo having taken place. Feel free to keep screaming about it, however. All that crying "Wolf!" is bound to do some good, right?
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Watermelon View PostOne of the 6 key facts put forward by the defense was that no witnesses was able to testify that the hold in aid was linked to the investigation announcement (which is not a good argument by the way). Bolton’s testimony, if true, gets rid of that defense.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostEr, no. It makes a lot of sense. Bolton's book is being vetted to make sure he's not saying anything that's unsuitable for release to the public. Until that process is complete, he can't know what he may or may not say - that's why the book is being vetted!
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostImpeachment has been weaponized to attempt to get rid of anybody "the other side" doesn't like. Impeachment has become a joke, as prophesied by the honorable Chuck Schumer many moons ago.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostSo, let's be real. The supposed object of this exercise is the removal of Trump from the Presidency. Do you REALLY believe there's even a snowball's chance of that happening?
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Originally posted by Watermelon View PostOne of the 6 key facts put forward by the defense was that no witnesses was able to testify that the hold in aid was linked to the investigation announcement (which is not a good argument by the way). Bolton’s testimony, if true, gets rid of that defense.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by DivineOb View PostAnd Trump is the ultimate declassification authority. If declassifying *something* allows Bolton to dispute this horribly damaging leak he'd have done that already.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by JimL View PostNot surprised you're confused, it's a complicated case. Zlochevsky's assets were actually siezed on Feb. 2 2015, they were then unseized on Dec. 25th 2015 because of a change in jurisdiction. The case was transfered from the PGO to NABU, the National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine, and under NABU the siezure was reinstated on Feb. 4th 2016. That had nothing to do with the UK seizure of 23 million. Republicans confused the reinstatement of the siezure in Feb 4th 2016 with the original siezure in Feb 2nd 2015. So, Shokin was no longer on the case at that time and Biden had nothing to do with it.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostExtortion in that sense, a quid pro quo, would not be illegal if in the interests of the U.S. In other words to offer aid with requirments attached is not in and of itself illegal, or as M Mulvaney would put it, we do this all the time. So yes, motive makes all the difference.
So far they have not proven Trump did anything for personal motives. That is just the Democrats accusations. Which is denied by everyone directly involved, including Ukraine. You keep screaming "extortion! he kept the money from Ukraine to force an investigation" -- well so what? Unless you can prove he did it for personal gain, it is perfectly legal as you just admitted.
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostTrump's defense team disagrees, and they presented an excellent argument that the Bidens should be investigated. So now the Democrats have to weigh whether it's worth it to call Bolton in exchange for the defense putting Hunter on the stand.
Trump has asked Zelensky for a favour by looking into Burisma and Crowdstrike. Trump also stated that he thinks Zelensky should investigate Burisma in front of the media several times.
You state there is an excellent argument for the Bidens to be investigated.
Question is then why didnt Zelensky announce investigations to keep Trump happy? If the Bidens alleged corruption was credible enough to justify Trump withholding aid then what was stopping Zelensky from making these announcements?
How quickly did Ukraine make the unprompted announcement regarding investigations into the alleged stalking of Ambassador Yovanovitch?
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostDeclassification isn't that easy. The president can't just snap his fingers and say, "Declassified!" There's a process that must be followed with all relevant agencies having a say in whether or not it's safe to do so.
"There’s no question that the president has broad authority to declassify almost anything at any time without any process, [trimmed irrelevant discussion of something else].
And whatever that process allegedly is, he's had 3 days during the single event which will most define his presidency to get it done.
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