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Thread: The Impeachment Trial

  1. #591
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    OK, so what ya got is....

    Trump did bad stuff which, though "improper" (as Alexander said), is not impeachable.
    The Democrats kinda sort proved the "improper" bad non-impeachable stuff.
    Bolton, apparently, will provide ADDITIONAL proof of the "improper" bad non-impeachable stuff.

    What's changed? Trump is forever impeached and will be forever acquitted.

    The incredibly vindictive partisan Democrats of the House are free to impeach AGAIN.
    With luck some like Mad Max[ine] Waters and Adam Schiftless will start demanding it immediately which oughta do well for the 2020 election since the public is so eager to go through another couple years of this.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

  2. #592
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    If the crime is spelled out in the Articles then it's still the same crime even if it is defined under the heading of "abuse of power." And it's defined that way because that is the definition of all crimes charged in an impeachment whether listed as such or not. The crime of bribery/extortion is spelled out in the articles for those who have the ability to comprehend.
    Cite where they are explicitly mentioned.

    You don't get to make an amorphous charge and then let the jury read into it what they want.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

  3. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  4. #593
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Pendragon View Post
    "Abuse of Power" is an amorphous term used to describe many other Crimes and in itself is not a crime. If I just accuse Jim of Abuse of Power it can be Briery or Extortion, or it could be sexual harassment, it could be ordering an subordinate to commit a murder, It could be using you position to cause someone to lie. It is not a Crime in it self. If I brought Jim up on charges of Abusing his Power and did not specify an actual Crime / Crimes connected to it, and brought it to court, the court would trough it out. Reason, because as the trial goes on I can attribute anything to the case it also does not allow the defense to actually defend against a real crime.
    Military aid for an investigation announcement on CNN against Biden. Quid pro quo, extortion, bribery by the President is an "abuse of power," thus the charge, "abuse of power."
    The crime is detailed in the Articles themselves and republicans have already admitted to it. Not to mention a violation of the Impoundment act by not informing Congress of the reason for the withholding of the aid.
    Last edited by JimL; 02-01-2020 at 05:28 AM.

  5. #594
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimLamebrain View Post
    Military aid for an investigation announcement on CNN against Biden.
    Not a crime. You might consider it bad foreign policy, but it's not a criminal act.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  6. #595
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Not a crime. You might consider it bad foreign policy, but it's not a criminal act.
    Extorting a foreign country for personal political gain is what we call an "abuse of power" which is a crime against the Constitution.

  7. #596
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Cite where they are explicitly mentioned.

    You don't get to make an amorphous charge and then let the jury read into it what they want.
    Don't be such an air head, the charges against the president are not only detailed in the Articles, but the same have been argued throughout the trial. The Articles don't just say "Abuse of power" and "Obstruction of Justice" they go on to give detailed explanation as was explained at trial as well.

  8. #597
    God, family, chicken! Bill the Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Extorting a foreign country for personal political gain is what we call an "abuse of power" which is a crime against the Constitution.
    And they didn't prove the "personal political gain" part. They asserted it all day long, but never proved anything.

  9. Amen NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  10. #598
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimLamebrain View Post
    Extorting a foreign country for personal political gain is what we call an "abuse of power" which is a crime against the Constitution.
    First of all, extortion has a very specific legal definition, and this doesn't fit. For one thing, Ukraine was never officially told the aid was being withheld or that its release was tied to their agreeing to conduct investigations. In fact, the Ukrainian government has repeatedly said they were never pressured to do anything.

    Second, there's no evidence whatsoever that the President was motivated by personal political gain.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  11. #599
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    And they didn't prove the "personal political gain" part. They asserted it all day long, but never proved anything.
    Don't tell that to Lamar Alexander! And the rest of the Senate Republicans know the same, but there was no way they could allow for a fair trial because that would reveal the whole conspiracy which would implicate Mike Pompeo, Lindsey Graham, Devin Nunes, Atty Gen. Barr, Mike Pence, Mick Mulvaney, White House Council Pat Cipollone, and a host of others who were in on it.

  12. #600
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    First of all, extortion has a very specific legal definition, and this doesn't fit.
    Extortion: The practice of obtaining something through force or threat. Yeah, I think that fits, MM.


    For one thing, Ukraine was never officially told the aid was being withheld or that its release was tied to their agreeing to conduct investigations. In fact, the Ukrainian government has repeatedly said they were never pressured to do anything.
    Whether told explicitly or not, "I need you to do us a favor though," they knew and made it clear that they knew.
    Second, there's no evidence whatsoever that the President was motivated by personal political gain.
    Actually there is. For one thing the president didn't hold up the appropriated aid to Ukraine in the previous years of his administration, he only held it up in 2019 after Biden announced his candidacy.

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