Morally Wrong Behavior vs. What the Civil Government Should Prohibit

[carpedm9587]

Again: Paul is clearly saying that all the encounters with Jesus in 1 Corinthians 15 were the same as his encounter with Jesus. And we know that this was not a fleshly encounter. Paul speaks of Jesus body as a “spiritual body”, which is the sort of body believers will inherit. As Paul says in chapter 50 of 1 Corinthians 15: “FLESH and BLOOD cannot inherit the kingdom of God”.



Ehrman says that: “Ancient people have no difficulty at all thinking that a divine appearance was not an actual physical appearance. A body could be buried and the person could appear alive afterwards without the body leaving the tomb”. “

And given that you set such great store in Ehrman, what he also makes clear is that “The Gospels were written by highly literate, trained, Greek-speaking Christians of the second and third generation. They’re not written by Jesus’ Aramaic-speaking followers. They’re written by people living 30, 40, 50, 60 years later based upon the Jesus tradition”.

“Stories are in circulation year after year after year, and as a result of that, the stories get changed. How do we know that the stories got changed in the process of transmission? We know the stories got changed because there are numerous differences in our accounts that cannot be reconciled with one another”.

https://www.reasonablefaith.org/medi...-craig-ehrman/

Seer will delete any part of this post he cannot respond to, and go back to questioning. This is his pattern: as soon as the line of argumentation surfaces things he cannot respond to and challenges his beliefs, he ignores them and then raises a question he is more comfortable with. If you persist - he will disconnect entirely. Although he has pointed to Ehrman, he does with Ehrman what he does with his bible: pick/choose the things that affirm his existing beliefs, and ignoring/dismiss the rest.

[seer]

Seer will delete any part of this post he cannot respond to, and go back to questioning. This is his pattern: as soon as the line of argumentation surfaces things he cannot respond to and challenges his beliefs, he ignores them and then raises a question he is more comfortable with. If you persist - he will disconnect entirely. Although he has pointed to Ehrman, he does with Ehrman what he does with his bible: pick/choose the things that affirm his existing beliefs, and ignoring/dismiss the rest.

Pot meet the hand waving king...

[carpedm9587]

Pot meet the hand waving king...

I have never deleted any part of any post you have made and have answered every question you have asked. If you think otherwise, please feel free to link the example(s). I have not agreed with you, Seer, but I have not dodged your questions nor failed to respond to points you raised. I HAVE refused to be diverted from a discussion in progress to a tangent you want to pivot to. THAT is absolutely true. You meanwhile, engage in poisoning the pot on almost every post, cannot resist personal attacks when you are disagreed with, and regularly remove anything you cannot respond to from a post. Your assertion here is simply false.

[seer]

I have never deleted any part of any post you have made and have answered every question you have asked. If you think otherwise, please feel free to link the example(s). I have not agreed with you, Seer, but I have not dodged your questions nor failed to respond to points you raised. I HAVE refused to be diverted from a discussion in progress to a tangent you want to pivot to. THAT is absolutely true. You meanwhile, engage in poisoning the pot on almost every post, cannot resist personal attacks when you are disagreed with, and regularly remove anything you cannot respond to from a post. Your assertion here is simply false.

Thanks for sharing Carp...

[carpedm9587]

Thanks for sharing Carp...

Anytime

[Tassman]

Again according to Ehrman did Paul and his audience believe in the resurrection of the body, the physical resurrection of Christ? Yes or no?

No. For Paul the resurrected body was a spiritual body (sōma pneumatikos). 1 Corinthians 15:44, describes the resurrection body as "spiritual" (Greek "pneumatikos") in contrast to the natural (Greek "psychikos") body: “So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable, what is raised is imperishable. It is sown in dishonour, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body”.

https://ehrmanblog.org/did-paul-beli...e-resurrected/

[seer]

No. For Paul the resurrected body was a spiritual body (sōma pneumatikos). 1 Corinthians 15:44, describes the resurrection body as "spiritual" (Greek "pneumatikos") in contrast to the natural (Greek "psychikos") body: “So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable, what is raised is imperishable. It is sown in dishonour, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body”.

https://ehrmanblog.org/did-paul-beli...e-resurrected/

Correct Tass, the body (flesh and blood) is mortal. The it that is raised is the mortal body made immortal. The mortal body is not discarded it is transformed.

Verse 53: For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.

The mortal body is not destroyed but transformed. Of course Paul speaks of this else where:

Romans 8:11, 23: If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you...And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies....

Philippians 3:20, 21: But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.

Of course your buddy Bart Ehrman agrees - from a question and answer exchange:

Glorifying a body is different from replacing a body (for an example of a glorified body, see the traditions about Jesus’ Transfiguration)

When Paul says “we shall all be changed” (1 Cor. 15:51) he does *not* say “we will all shed our bodies.” The body is transformed/changed, not abandoned.

In 1 Corinthians 15:3-8, it is the same person, the bodily Jesus, who dies, is buried, is raised, and who appeared to others, including Paul.

https://ehrmanblog.org/did-paul-thin...-july-14-2017/

[JimL]

Correct Tass, the body (flesh and blood) is mortal. The it that is raised is the mortal body made immortal. The mortal body is not discarded it is transformed.


Of course your buddy Bart Ehrman agrees - from a question and answer exchange:

Glorifying a body is different from replacing a body (for an example of a glorified body, see the traditions about Jesus’ Transfiguration)

When Paul says “we shall all be changed” (1 Cor. 15:51) he does *not* say “we will all shed our bodies.” The body is transformed/changed, not abandoned.

In 1 Corinthians 15:3-8, it is the same person, the bodily Jesus, who dies, is buried, is raised, and who appeared to others, including Paul.

https://ehrmanblog.org/did-paul-thin...-july-14-2017/

And while the body decomposes, where is the spirit/soul hanging out prior to getting it's new and glorified body, it's so called resurrection?

[seer]

And while the body decomposes, where is the spirit/soul hanging out prior to getting it's new and glorified body, it's so called resurrection?

Some say heaven, some say the soul sleeps. It really does not matter.

[JimL]

Some say heaven, some say the soul sleeps. It really does not matter.

The resurrected saints came straight out of their tombs at the crucifixion.

[seer]

The resurrected saints came straight out of their tombs at the crucifixion.

And?

[JimL]

And?

The implication is that the old saints hung out for hundreds and thousands of years with there decomposing bodies and then resurrect in those same old bodies. If you die as an old man, do you believe you resurrect as an old man?

[seer]

The implication is that the old saints hung out for hundreds and thousands of years with there decomposing bodies and then resurrect in those same old bodies. If you die as an old man, do you believe you resurrect as an old man?

I have no idea what bodies they were raised with in that case. I suspect it was not the glorified immortal body that Paul was speaking of.

[JimL]

I have no idea what bodies they were raised with in that case. I suspect it was not the glorified immortal body that Paul was speaking of.

As Tass pointed out, they are not said to be raised as natural bodies, they are sown as natural bodies, raised as spiritual bodies. In other words, the soul, the spirit, is raised, not the flesh.

[seer]

As Tass pointed out, they are not said to be raised as natural bodies, they are sown as natural bodies, raised as spiritual bodies. In other words, the soul, the spirit, is raised, not the flesh.

False, that is not what it says. The mortal body is not lost or destroyed it is transformed. It is sown in dishonour, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.

What is the it that is raised here?