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Cogito ergo sum

Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!

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Morally Wrong Behavior vs. What the Civil Government Should Prohibit

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Tassman View Post
    SO, "forced racial segregation, separate and unequal, and racial profiling were the rule of law in America" as imposed by Christians, who comprised the vast majority of the population.
    And it was largely Christians who ended those things.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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    • #17
      Originally posted by seer View Post
      And it was largely Christians who ended those things.
      They were ended only after several centuries as the social values that accepted them changed. Morals and ethics evolve and vary to a degree from culture to culture over time.
      “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Tassman View Post
        They were ended only after several centuries as the social values that accepted them changed. Morals and ethics evolve and vary to a degree from culture to culture over time.
        Nonsense Tass, there were very early Christians that were against slavery and the reason what it changed in the West was directly because of Christians.
        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Jim B. View Post
          I think it has to do with what's perceived to be a 'public good' or in the 'public interest' as opposed to what's a private good or mainly a private matter. So the boundary line is somewhat fluid and will change with time. For instance, homosexuality was once viewed as a matter of public morality and public decency and society thought it had a compelling interest in controlling it. With time it came to be seen as a private matter between consenting adults. A lot of it has to do with changing opinions about factual matters; for instance that homosexuality came to be seen factually in a different light, less as a deliberate moral choice or set of choices and more as a biological pre-disposition, at least among males.
          Can it be deduced from the Bible what the civil government should consider to be a public good or public interest and a private good or private matter?

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          • #20
            Originally posted by seer View Post
            Nonsense Tass, there were very early Christians that were against slavery and the reason what it changed in the West was directly because of Christians.
            Morals and ethics evolve and vary to a degree from culture to culture over time. There have been times when slavery was the norm in predominantly Christian societies and times when racial discrimination was the norm – in the majority Christian Deep Southern states for example. And there have been times when such beliefs were anathema among Christians and society in general.
            “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Tassman View Post
              Morals and ethics evolve and vary to a degree from culture to culture over time. There have been times when slavery was the norm in predominantly Christian societies and times when racial discrimination was the norm – in the majority Christian Deep Southern states for example. And there have been times when such beliefs were anathema among Christians and society in general.
              More bigoted nonsense. Most societies for most of history accepted or practiced slavery. Christian or otherwise. And it was Christians who put an end to it in the West, even though it is still practiced in non-christian nations today.
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by seer View Post
                More bigoted nonsense. Most societies for most of history accepted or practiced slavery. Christian or otherwise.
                Precisely my point. Most societies for most of history DID accept or practice slavery. “Christian or otherwise”.

                And it was Christians who put an end to it in the West,
                No, it was said societies, “Christian and otherwise” that put an end to it in the West. Although, with considerable resistance in the USA by Christians in the deep south - along with the Jim Crow apartheid Laws. Apartheid was similarly maintained by the Dutch Reform Church in South Africa until relatively recently.

                even though it is still practiced in non-christian nations today.
                But it is NOT practiced by ANY of the non-religious secular nations of the West today such as the highly-developed Scandinavian countries.
                “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                  No, it was said societies, “Christian and otherwise” that put an end to it in the West. Although, with considerable resistance in the USA by Christians in the deep south - along with the Jim Crow apartheid Laws. Apartheid was similarly maintained by the Dutch Reform Church in South Africa until relatively recently.
                  No, in the West it was Christians who lead the abolition movements - period.
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by seer View Post
                    No, in the West it was Christians who lead the abolition movements - period.
                    This assertion is demonstrably wrong. Christians have a long history of reading the bible so that virtually any perspective on current issues will find some support in the bible. This has been true of slavery and racial discrimination for centuries in the US southern states and elsewhere.
                    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                      This assertion is demonstrably wrong. Christians have a long history of reading the bible so that virtually any perspective on current issues will find some support in the bible. This has been true of slavery and racial discrimination for centuries in the US southern states and elsewhere.
                      What is untrue Tass? That Christians lead the abolition movement in the West? Are you joking, or just dishonest?
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by seer View Post
                        What is untrue Tass? That Christians lead the abolition movement in the West? Are you joking, or just dishonest?
                        SOME Christians were at the forefront of the abolition movement in the West, some were not, e.g. in the US deep south and with the apartheid of the Jim Crow laws. So, your blanket assertion that “Christians lead the abolition movement in the West” is factually wrong. Christians, as they have throughout history, merely reflected the divergent social values of the day.
                        Last edited by Tassman; 02-01-2020, 09:26 PM.
                        “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                          SOME Christians were at the forefront of the abolition movement in the West, some were not, e.g. in the US deep south and with the apartheid of the Jim Crow laws. So, your blanket assertion that “Christians lead the abolition movement in the West” is factually wrong. Christians, as they have throughout history, merely reflected the divergent social values of the day.
                          No it is not factually wrong, if Christians did not lead the abolition movement in the West - who did - be exact...
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                            SOME Christians were at the forefront of the abolition movement in the West, some were not, e.g. in the US deep south and with the apartheid of the Jim Crow laws. So, your blanket assertion that “Christians lead the abolition movement in the West” is factually wrong. Christians, as they have throughout history, merely reflected the divergent social values of the day.
                            He didn't say all or every Christian and yet the fact remains that it was Christians who led the abolition movement. It is no coincidence that slavery was abolished in areas where Christianity held sway while still being acceptable in parts of the world where it didn't.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                              He didn't say all or every Christian and yet the fact remains that it was Christians who led the abolition movement. It is no coincidence that slavery was abolished in areas where Christianity held sway while still being acceptable in parts of the world where it didn't.
                              If you are going to argue that Christians led the abolition movement then you must also argue that Christians led the slavery “movement” and maintained the Jim Crow laws well into the 20th century. Christianity has always reflected the social values of the day and these values evolve and vary to a degree from culture to culture over time.
                              “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by seer View Post
                                And it was largely Christians who ended those things.
                                What do you mean by "largely"? The civil rights movement was a motley collection of various ideologies. MLK did not just emerge, he was selected to be the point, the public face of the civil rights movement. His qualities of being good looking and articulate, a Protestant Christian pastor, charismatic, etc. all led to his his being chosen. The events of the civil rights movement were largely orchestrated, the legal challenges were selected for their utility, the events and mass demonstration were for public consumption.

                                The casket of Emett Till was kept open because of its shock value. The Greensboro sit in by the A and T Four was staged, they did not sit down for so long because they wanted lunch.
                                The NAACP was distrusted by many, including the FBI, as a communist front because many communists were drawn to civil rights.

                                The resistance to civil rights was dominated by Christians and those allied with Christianity.

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