Originally posted by seer
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Philosophy 201 Guidelines
Cogito ergo sum
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
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Morally Wrong Behavior vs. What the Civil Government Should Prohibit
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Originally posted by JimL View PostWhat is good is that which is done to support the best interests of the doer without exacting unnecessary harm to another. We, as moral agents certainly didn't want to kill innocent civilians, we call it collateral damage, and perhaps we sometimes get it wrong, choose the wrong option, or perhaps there are some who are just immoral and choose to exact unnecessary harm to the other. But yes, imperfect human beings ultimately decide what is good and what is evil. Btw, we humans make those moral decisions whether or not there is an objective moral code, and we make those decisions based on reason. So, even if there were one, an objective moral code, it would be useless to us. And whose fault would that be?Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostThey're not the same. Logic is based on reasoning according to strict rules of validity, whereas morality is based upon evolved behavior that enhances our survival as a species. It varies from culture to culture.
ALL Christians read the bible through the ever-changing lens of their own culture and experiences. So, it’s up to the Christians that perpetrated slavery and racism for centuries to justify it, not me.
The same applies to your supposedly godly world – as history shows us.
Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostThat is not my point or what I was asking. Try giving a straight answer:If humans did not understand the laws of logic or failed to follow them does that mean that said laws are not universal? YES OR NO.
Again Tass, there are no scriptures that justify racism so they are not getting that idea from the Bible. Period.
just animals acting as animals.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostThis is a false analogy. Logic is based on reasoning according to strict unchanging rules of validity. Conversely, there are no unchanging rules of behavior outside of the evolved principle of cooperative intelligent social behavior necessary for humanity to survive.
Really. The Dutch Reform Church justified apartheid in South Africa from scripture. And the SBC justified it. After a century and a half, in 1995, the Southern Baptist Convention issued a formal apology for its earlier support of slavery and segregation based upon racism. Typically, Christians have read the bible through the ever-changing lens of their own culture and interpret it accordingly.
Indeed. Humans have evolved to behave as cooperative, intelligent social animals. This is the basis of their morality.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostThe reason you don't answer Tass is because youiu know that the laws of logic remain valid even is we mess them up. Our lack of understanding makes no difference, and never could.
Tass I don't care what denomination did this or that
- I asked for scriptural references. And obviously you have none.
Just as humans evolved to be racist. Now what?Last edited by Tassman; 03-21-2020, 10:27 PM.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostThe reason is that it is a false analogy. Logic is a procedure of reasoning in accordance with strict unchanging rules. Whereas morality consists of rules of behavior which change from culture to culture over time.
They did it in the name of Christianity.
Scriptural references can be interpreted to mean whatever people want them to mean, e.g. slavery can be justified, women can be kept subservient to men, witches can be killed and heretics burnt at the stake etc. In short, society sets the rules and invokes scripture to justify them..
Not quite. Humans evolved to live in community. Initially they were tribal and racist (“God’s chosen people” etc.) and now they are more universal (The Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the Civil Rights Act etc.).Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by seer View PostNo Jim, actually we did target civilians in WW2 in an attempt to break the will of the people. Japan and Germany did the same. Second, your moral reasoning is subjective to you and relative. The Maoist has has reasons for executing dissidents. Reason can not be used for doing good and evil so reason can not be the guide.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostThe existence of an objective moral code, being that said code is unknowable, would be useless to humans beings anyway. So, why argue about the possible existence of a code which is unknowable, and so useless?Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by JimL View PostI guess that "why" is a question you'll have to ask Christ.
I called it!The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by seer View PostThis is false Tass, universal moral truths do not change over time even if we do not follow them or understand them
, just as logical truths do not change over time even if we do not follow them or understand them. So your argument is bunk...
Again, you are avoiding the question - what Scriptures justify racism?
What are you talking about? Most countries have not signed on to the Declaration of Human Rights, and Civil Rights Act does not make men non-racist.
Racism is a perfectly natural condition in man.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostYou assume that “universal moral truths” exist but how do you know they exist if you don’t understand what they are? In fact, they don’t exist. Morality consists of rules of behavior which change from culture to culture according to societal need.
Logic is a procedure of reasoning, not “unchanging truths” in and of themselves. So, your analogy is “bunk”.Last edited by seer; 03-23-2020, 07:21 AM.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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